usc paper misconstrues old bank district, nickel diner
Sometimes, Downtown skeptics and their folly on our changing neighborhoods seems to be based on nothing else but raw prejudice, and an unwillingness to form an opinion outside of the general consensus.
A review published today by USC’s Daily Trojan takes a look at Main Street’s new Nickel Diner through the eyes of a college student. The piece takes a two-pronged stance on the eatery’s appeal, first misjudging its outward appearance in the middle of a scruffy block, then shrugging it off as a trendy place to hang out and grab a bite.
For the lone restaurant of its kind on Main Street, however, it is a constant battle to fight outward appearance and lure customers inside.
The Nickel Diner is easy to miss on the small block between 5th and 6th streets. It is surrounded by industrial companies and blends in surprisingly well. The only thing that convinces a skeptical seeker not to jet out of the area are the bright red bricks and the overhang on the diner’s exterior.
Upon entering through a red door, the chic retro vibe, red vinyl interior, old-fashioned furniture and throwback wall art makes you feel that you’ve not only been transported to a nicer neighborhood, but to another era…
…That is not to say the menu is not worth a breakfast or lunch visit.
While the article’s author is careful to deliver the bad with the good, it doesn’t dismiss her skewed representation of the facts.
In response to the struggle to lure in customers, each time I’ve visited Nickel’s dining room has been lively and packed, some tables occupied by young families or elderly couples out for an afternoon brunch. The diner does, in fact, seem as though it’s been there for fifty years.
The reference to industrial companies is confusing knowing this neighborhood is mostly residential — a perception most likely formed by several neighborhood SRO residents who hang out on the sidewalks in front of the restaurant.
Owner Monica May lends her rebuttal by saying all residents of the block are neighbors and welcomed at the door. Since owning Banquette at 4th and Main for several years, May and her business partner Kristen Trattner realize these are some of the friendliest folks around, many becoming faithful patrons.
As a writer myself, I understand the importance of catering to your audience, but presuming facts out of obliviousness or prejudice is helping no one.
The Nickel Diner
524 S Main Street
Los Angeles, CA 90013
213-623-8301
5cdiner.com
Wed-Sun: 7:30am-3:30pm
-The Nickel Diner opens in downtown L.A. (LA Times Blog / Daily Dish)
-The Nickel dishes up a big helping of downtown L.A. (LA Times)
103 comments
Sounds like the neighborhood isn’t white enough for the trust fund kids.
eww usc.
Classic clear cut case of racism, homophobia, and and religious intolerance. Si se puede.
PHARMACY ROW
There’s a really interesting article to be written about opening a business surrounded by SRO’s. To me, the resolution of the unique challenges that such an endeavor presents is central to the future of many areas in downtown. How can you have healthy retail and residential development without blindly driving out those important services for individuals in need? And how can you open a successful retail business when the perception of your neighbors may “turn off” many of your potential customers? What kinds of businesses can survive these challenges?
Lastly, the use of the word “industrial” to describe that stretch of the street in the USC piece is just lazy writing and editing.
You should email this blog post (and it’s comments) to the author of that article… I’m sure she’ll learn a lesson from it.
Maybe I completely missed the entire point of the article but I see nothing misleading about it at all. I also don’t feel like there is a any racism or religious intolerance whatsoever.
If anything I feel like the article was very positive about the direction of Downtown and this Diner’s contribution to it. The fact remains that the diner is in a once bad neighborhood where there are times you are afraid to go. I am one of downtown’s biggest believers owning two businesses there but we still have a ways to go and even with all the recent positive changes we are not there yet.
I ate at the nickel for the first time today. It was freaking awesome.
That article is hilariously ill-informed, but if it keeps a bunch of frat kids from straying into our neighborhood for good food so be it.
Yup, I think the overall tone seemed a bit over-cautious. I mean, c’mon: “The only thing that convinces a skeptical seeker not to jet out of the area…”. And I can think of a lot of words to describe Main Street, but “industrial” isn’t one of them.
There’s an Olive Garden near USC that she can eat at, right? Don’t want her to starve now.
Main Street is not a nice area. The area absolutely feels industrial. That’s why people (not all people!) who live there are attracted to it. What is wrong with what was said? Queer, Fred, Dave, petes – downtown owes a lot to USC and the rent they pay. I typically enjoy the posts on this blog as they inform residents and business People where to go. But you guys suck! Let’s not forget that she is probably in her late teens. Big deal. It seems that she ventured to a place outside of her normal routine, was a bit skittish, but enjoyed it. AT least she ventured beyond her comfort zone and had an experience that will probably give her a slightly different outlook (like ya’lls outlook). Fred, your comment is beyond ridiculous, I keep thinking it is sarcasm but then I’m like no it’s Fred, he really means it! Freak.
Stephen, who are you to critize the general consensus. Especially since the point she is making is that main street is F****** scary. IT is like TWO or THREE blocks from skid row. That’s like the baddest area around.
re: Olive Garden
ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!?? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If downtown is ever to become the cultural, residential, commercial, etc… center/hub we want it to become the first thing that has to happen is for the current residence/neighborhood to embrace change and hope that downtown becomes more mainstream.
We can’t clamor for development while at the same time crap on people that have reservations about downtown. Let downtown speak for itself. Especially when an author is writing an article about the downtown that not only is not crapping it. The author merely suggested that change that is happening and it is for the positive.
Main/Spring are still not completely populated streets. If we are to even begin mentioning downtown with the likes of manhattan, gaslamp, etc……. we must embrace all the skeptics and turn them. Don’t forget that many of us were at the same time in those shoes. I know I was 5 years ago.
Anonymous #11…. Are we reading the same article? Can you show me even one sentence in the article by the USC “student” that is NOT blatantly racist, homophobic, and anti-Muslim?
#12: What? I’m confused. I’m not criticizing the general consensus – I’m stating it.
The general consensus in LA is that Main Street is a scary and dangerous place, exactly like you said. That’s not true, and the larger issue here is why people are quick to judge.
I don’t get where you’re going.
Stephen is not criticizing the general consensus, he is criticizing what is bad writing that simply reinforces common stereotypes and perceptions about downtown. While it is a little harsh (yeah, it’s a young college student, give her a break!), the writing does leave a lot to be desired.
Oh, well… moving on.
let them write that stuff. i mean, really, do we want a bunch of usc shits in the historic core? keep ‘em in south park.
#15: What sentence IS anti-muslim? Or homophobic? Or racist?
Maybe I am not reading the correct article.
SRO’s are not industrial. One might describe the area surrounding the Nickel as impoverished or blighted or even unclean, but it is not industrial. Industrial indicates a certain kind of business is taking place (large scale manufacturing, waste management, etc), one that isn’t really present in that area of downtown.
It is a particularly poor choice of words because 1) there is an actual industrial area not too many blocks away and 2) how the Nickel relates to the specifics challenges of the neighborhood in which it operates will be a huge part of whether it ultimately succeeds or not.
If folks are looking for a diner in an actual industrial area, I suggest they check out Blue Star in the scrap metal district.
number 19!
How dare you! I’m not even going to dignify such slander with a response. can you even read!
you sound like one of the right wing moose-killing Palin wacko’s! maybe you shouldn’t be posting on a blog, but out helping people in a community group or other non-profit organization.
I love living downtown, but the worst aspect by far is the abundance of trojans. Hopefully this article keeps them away from an awesome place like Nickel Diner.
#15: What sentence IS anti-muslim? Or homophobic? Or racist?
Maybe I am not reading the correct article.
I can only choose one?? How about this one:
“That is not to say the menu is not worth a breakfast or lunch visit.”
What is the writer trying to imply by this flagrantly insulting statement? “not worth”? What’s that supposed to mean? I hope the writer realizes that not all cultures have “breakfast” or “lunch”. Racialism at its WORST.
>> Classic clear cut case of racism, homophobia, and and religious intolerance <<
Yes, and the writer also exhibits signs of sexism, classism, nativism, obesephobia, skinnyphobia, dandruffphobia, drunkphobia, piss-smellphobia, claustrophobia, and probably hates small animals, babies and apple pie too.
She’s horrible!!!
Whoa…I feel some electricity in this blog. Backing up a bit…I totally support PeterJ in this. “Industrial” is NOT the correct word to use to describe Main Street. To insist it is suggests to me the writer does not know wherefore he or she speaks relative to the other points, either.
#23: Thank you for clearing that up. You know, people like you give liberals a bad name.
Its funny, I just donanated to the DNC because I believe in Obama and the history of the Democratic party, and yet I will wind up voting Republican because of loonies like you who have become the voice of the Left.
Wow.
^ Cos we all know there’s no crazy republicans out there…
Huh?
I ate at the diner this week. Two comments. The food was fantastic but the smell of urine on the sidewalk was disgusting. I live Downtown and the area really needs a good cleaning. How about scrubbing the sidwalks once in a while.
I love USC. I am an Obama supporter. I live Downtown.
As far as the meal, I had the pulled pork with a lemon bar for dessert. WOW. EXCELLENT FOOD.
I am happy to see some life on this street. The surrounding men outside the hotel were non threatening. The Diner needs some nice plants and flowers outside. I hope to see more places like this on Main Street. Kudos to the owners! BTW, we need the Republicans to vote for Obama…and they will in droves.
What’s with all the USC hate? Maybe they should have moved to Malibu.
B Dooley gets it
Sometimes, Downtown skeptics and their folly on our changing neighborhoods seems to be based on nothing else but raw prejudice, and an unwillingness to form an opinion outside of the general consensus.
their vs. our (their being the ‘general consensus’ our being our little utopia in downtown)
Skeptics of downtown (against our utopian society, downtown)
unwillingness to form an opinion outside of the general consensus, the general consensus being based on raw prejudice. It’s a bit circular but clearly smacks of a “looking down one’s nose” at the general consensus.
I actually slept with a USC girl once (I’m gay, tho) and she had a very large I might even say grandiose vagina and the curtains were red which was different than the color of the rest of the street. It made me want to jet. She had some industrial work done and well, when I went back I felt like I had been transported to a much nicer vagina – like the vagina was… gentrified.
…That is not to say that the vagina is not worth a sunrise surprise or a nooner.
Alright ya’ll, let’s call a spade a spade, this is the point the author was trying to get across.
golf clap
#28 – there is NO way you could be a USC fan and an Obama supporter. I’ve given the maximum donation to Obama so I know.
#26 speak fo yo self! it’s incendiary comments like that which ruin the chance for the chances of the first african american running president in this fine country.
#29 give me a BREAK! Malibu? really? Malibu! why don’t you move down the alphabet and drop the n-word like we all know you want to you pandering back-to-africa racist. i can’t take this kind of regionalistic de-facto discrimination that Angelinos have, this would never happen in new york.
Regardless of whatever insinuations the article may have (and I don’t think there is anything negative or racist about it), the food at the Nickel Diner just … is … not … very … good.
..the food at the Nickel Diner just … is … not … very … good.
Looks like another racialist has joined the fray…
http://www.gammaphibetausc.org/includes_common/bio.php?user_id=137149
I recommend writing stern letters to the Gamma Phi Beta national chapter and see if we can get this closed-minded so called “student” kicked out of her sorority and hopefully school. Is this the best our institutions of “higher learning” can do? See what happens when the Bushies cut funding. Anyways, she needs to move back to the Orange Curtain where she belongs .
Gawd, 45 more days…
For contrast:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-nickel20-2008sep20,0,736905.story
i can’t take this kind of regionalistic de-facto discrimination that Angelinos have, this would never happen in new york.
New Yorkers are famous (or is that infamous?) for hating Los Angeles.
RACISTS!!!! Anti-Latino BIGOTS!!!!
San Franciscans also are well known for hating Los Angeles.
HOMOPHOBES!!!!
wow, these responses are strangely over emotional! A college kid writes a review and you people act like it means something. There’s alot of hate being spewed here and I wonder why, really? This article can NOT be the reason.
BTW, not all USC “kids” are rich, spoiled, or even in a frat/sorority. Many of them even do neighborhood service work. What’s going on here?
Many city’s are being revitalized and “outsiders” need to be lured back to appreciate it. Writing hateful stuff like this is not going to help LA. I’m not from LA, either. I’m from Philly.
Am I the only one to feel its somewhat ironic that this article has already generated some 40 comments in this forum whereas, in the Daily Trojan, where the article originally appeared, it has only garnered one comment, and that from downtown businessman-blogger Bert Green. It would seem that the regular readers of the DT are far more concerned with recent incidents of violent crime near their campus, as judged by the volume of comments published by that paper, than ill written restaurant reviews.
Wow!! I’m all for voicing your opinions, but this has just gotten a bit silly, don’t you think?
Happy Saturday Everyone!!!
i go to usc and have lived in downtown for more than three years and i think the opening of the nickel is great. i love living here and honestly feel like part of an awesome community. i hope this article doesn’t make people think that EVERY usc is like the author. like #40 said students are a lot more concerned over the recent sexual assaults and the altercation that left a student dead then a restaurant review. i am positive the nickel will survive this skewed review and i’ll try to get to all my school buddies to try this awesome spot with me.
Best comment thread ever.
Btw, I feel bad for bashing USC and frat kids. Some of my good downtown friends went to USC and were in frats. They’re cool guys. I didn’t know them when they were going to USC though, maybe they’ve grown up?
Just read the LAT article… awesome!
The LA Times article was fabulous. I love the Nickle. It’s very anti-LA in regards to the taste of the food…lol…The food at that places is actually edible and you don’t even have to be drunk. The food is very good. LA is notorious for great service ok food, but the food at the Nickle is great, just like at the May’s other place Banquette.
Ok I think I said the food was good enough times.
The service is great, it’s like Fred 62, but without the false bs vibe, odd customer service and bad food thing…though I have to say another excellent place in downtown is the Tierra which is owned by Fred 62 guy, but that place is good and the Pizza is to die for.
Lets be thankful that USC gave it a questionable review. USC is a horrible place with horrible people and the more of them we keep away from the more creative side of downtown LA the better. I don’t like generalizing, but if you make a conscious decision to pay over 20k dollars to go to school why aren’t you going to Stanford, obviously something is wrong with you.
I live a block away from this place.
The Nickle is a very nice restaurant in an area that’s not particularly pleasant. It’s certainly not dangerous, but aesthetically, it’s far from ideal (how about a tree or two, jeez). It’s difficult to argue otherwise.
I confess I don’t understand this brouhaha, unless people are criticizing this article as a proxy for their deeper anger about or fear of gentrification.
Nickel Diner a good mix of the old and new
Old-fashioned diner meets chic modern cafe at Nickel Diner, perfect for college students.
Melissa Zonne
jeez i sure hope the Nickel survives this positive review in a college newspaper
Haha, I agree that this was the best thread ever. The internet is run by sarcasm, and this just extended the life of the internet by another billion years.
Fact is, if you go read the original review (in other words, click the link) by this college sophomore who perhaps hasn’t fully mastered the art of professional level journalism before her 20th birthday you will realize that it’s actually a positive review that encourages her fellow students to give the restaurant and the evolving neighborhood a try despite outside appearances and preconceived prejudices. Actually, you know what, I think that makes her a pretty accomplished journalist especially when you consider she can’t legally start hitting the booze like a real journalist for another 2 years.
Melissa Zonne, if you need someone to keep you company and make you feel a little more at ease on Main Street, I’m your man. Also, if your sorority is looking for a house boy to help clean up the feathers after the pillow fights, I’m available.
Wow browne!
It seems you’re just as prejudice about USC as the USC students are about downtown.
I don’t like generalizing but if people make a conscious decision to try and prove a point it’s usually best not to criticize the 30,000 or so students that attend USC by making a massive generalization and not look like a pompous ass. If only people like you live in downtown (which thankfully I know is not the case) then I’d call it a horrible place with horrible people. I attended Berkeley not USC but I’d love to hear where you went to school……
Take it back Steve.. You’re not allowed to call people prejudiced. That’s Browne’s job!
“USC is a horrible place with horrible people and the more of them we keep away from the more creative side of downtown LA the better. I don’t like generalizing, but if you make a conscious decision to pay over 20k dollars to go to school why aren’t you going to Stanford, obviously something is wrong with you.”
Right on Browne! Who needs USC students? Same goes for the blacks and Jews!
You’re right mdogg, totally overstepped my space there. Browne, go for it really, I could never have as much skill as you!
Again, as I have found out many times…sarcasm does come through on the internet.
Please clearly mark all instances as such. This will save approximately 30-40 comments per thread.
Thank you.
That was not sarcastic, by the way.
Don’t try to use heavy sarcasm to hide the obvious racism in your comment Scott… nice try though, actually.
Steve,
First off I’m going to say I think the USC student was trying to be objective with her review (possibly a classist review, but it’s USC that’s what they do). She probably thinks that being a true journalism has to do with being critical…lol…and I would agree with Fred Camino on various funny points. The breakfast and lunch statement hit home with me personally on my planet we don’t have breakfast or lunch we just have brunch.
Second off Steve come on, my statements on USC were obviously me being a little funny, some my best friends are Trojans. In LA there are UCLA people and there are Trojan people. Depending on which side you are on you mock the other. It’s all we have!!!!! We don’t have a professional football team here if we can’t mock a Trojan or Bruin occasionally what kind of town would we have. For god sakes are you trying to turn us into Berkeley?
Thirteenth off I do truly like the Nickle. I think the food is tasty. I think it’s a gem. Rarely do you find an eatery that rocks on that level on day one of opening. Monica May needs a show like that Ramsey guy.
Eighth off I do think parts of Main smell like pee, but it also smells like pee at Cafe Pee-Pee (Hell) No by the library where the food taste a little better than vomit and the service is crap, so if I have to choose a pee-pee fragranced eatery this would be the one I would choose.
Tenth off lets all admit that Main has some challenges, its not bad, but if you’re not used to seeing it Main isn’t typical LA. The average person (even though it has been cleaned up nicely) might go WTF, you know seriously folks, they might. My friends from Los Feliz have, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad I think it’s part of the charm of the neighborhood really.
Signed,
Miss Pompous Ass
Can’t we all just get along?! haha, Very amusing thread indeed – thanks Fred C for injecting a little humor and perspective here. Nickel is a fantastic restaurant with really good reasonably priced food – I’ve been several times. After reading the LAtimes review (and viewing their fancy slide-show) , I’m even more of a fan of Monica and Kristen for their efforts to reach out to the immediate neighborhood and community.
And Jesus H Christ I make one little comment and I get referenced like one thousand times.
And Mdogg and Jerry Seinfeld, come on…come the fudge on, I can’t make a little statement about USC without you whipping out the race card in regards to me that’s outfreakinrageous. I thought this was a light heart conversation, but go ahead and be nasty jerks if that makes your day.
The article may not have had any issues with any ism beyond classism but you two asses show that you obviously have an issue with it.
My comment may have been longer, but it sure wasn’t any harsher than Petescafe comment about the trustfunds, but you’re not going after him.
Browne
Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt, and Jesus Christ didn’t die on the cross so we could crucify others on a message board…ahem! *Browne*
Anonymous #11:
Are you a student, or did stupidity come naturally? Doesn’t feel nice to be overtly insulted, does it? But since you just had to tell folk with informed opinions about Main Street between 5th and 6th that they “suck” and are “freak[s],” well, there you go. In any case, I have been a resident of this area twice. (Once for several years in the 1990s, when I owned a publishing business in the Valuta at 6th and Spring; the other time is the present. One prominent article I published round 1999 or so was about the amazingly insipid college newspapers such as Campus Circle and, of course, the Daily Trojan. I see little has changed.)
#12 (are you the same idiot?): WHY do you state that Main street “is F****** scary. IT is like TWO or THREE blocks from skid row. That’s like the baddest area around.”? I know a couple or three of the people about the lousily written “article” refers. I can also state that Skid Row is far from the baddest area around. Perhaps you might pop out there so you know what what the rest of us are discussing, rather than run your mindless mouth while you drive by quickly from one freeway to the next. And while you are at it, perhaps you can tell us teh last time someone was shot near the Nickel: http://media.www.dailytrojan.com/media/storage/paper679/news/2007/08/28/News/14YearOld.Shot.Near.Usc.Campus-2939860.shtml
Oh, and “Jeff Foxworthy”: Stuff the bad puns. Is that the best your saviour can grant you? If so, I suggest you find a new god, one that does not like to make fools of his followers.
The Nickel is a great place, and I am glad it is open for breakfast; I am a regular patron. I also know quite a bit about this area before it became the way it is now. I want it to develop—albeit not in a fashion that bleaches out the flavour of the nabe—and become a true bit of a downtown city. Part of the problem is that many folk want it to become just like the valley or the west side or a party place for frat boys and similar idiots. If the article under review is taken to heart by the trust fund kiddies and idiots such as those I have chastised, then so be it. But the Nickel is a great addition to an area that is dangerous only to the dumb.
“an area that is dangerous only to the dumb.”
I have to use that line. Thanks BusTard. Sometimes you really are brilliant.
I think mdogg and “Jerry Seinfield” have a point: USC students cannot step out of being stupid any more than black people can step out of their skins. Or did I incorrectly infer that USC students are fighting the same prejudices as jews and blacks have been for centuries?
But I remain curious, so perhaps dogg or “Jerry” (Steve admits he lacks skill, so I will not waste my time there) can help me out here: what EXACTLY is the “outward appearance” that the proprietors of the Nickel need to “fight”? (I feel I can safely assume you two agree with Ms. Zonne’s poorly penned piece in regards the “outward appearance” that needs to be fought.)
We live directly across the street from the Nickel, with a view that allows us to see how busy it is. After our 3rd visit since it opened, we can say that it is fantastic to have a decent establishment nearby that neither disregards nor caters directly to, the SRO clientele. On Thursday morning we were there early, and a displaced-looking couple were enjoying their coffee refills and baked goods just like us. Yeah, the streets smell like piss — and plenty of humans contribute to the stench. But so do the dogs! Those of us that live here know that we have an abundance of animal neighbors which are at least as responsible for the odoriferous quality of the streets as the humans are. As a former NYC person (late 80s, and again early 2000s) I can say that Downtown is an awful lot like SoHo and Brooklyn, and hope that as we continue to gentrify here that we have learned what NOT to do from SoHo and Brooklyn, which is to turn a vibrant and dynamic neighborhood into an outdoor shopping experience. Oh, and The Hangover Helper is fuckin’ good.
Bustard, BIG MAN you “chastised” college kids! You must be on crack! The area is complete shit and 100% intimidating. Do you go to this joint to grab a bite before you base? Then after you base you become a self-grandizing freak who gets his jollies criticizing 20 year old college students! Clearly you are a older freak probably in a mid-life crisis. You are simply amazing – you publish prominent articles about a scary neighborhood. BTW, the outward appearance is drugs, dirty, unsafe, crime, urine and poop (human poop on the sidewalks)!, industrial, hookers. Plus you had a printing business in the area which only reinforces industrial (although you probably just had a 500 sf office there). You are probably so ugly and dirty your own self that you walk around and people tell you “there is a clinic two blocks to the east, have a dollar.” You probably laugh and tell them of the days that you owned a printing company and published prominent articles about skid row west.
Good points Spring and Main Dweller. I think often we think the pee smell is people, when in lots of times I know it’s dogs. I know this is an odd question but does displaced mean homeless?
I will definitely have to try that hangover helper or stop drinking, so I will probably just try the hangover helper
Spring and main: I hear ya! I watched LES get screwed (and is getting even worse). Brooklyn was in a bad way (not just Williamsburg, mind you but Bed Stuy, Bay Ridge, Red Hook, and many points along the East River and bay edges; even Borough Park is having problems holding it back, I hear). I am not appreciative of a fair amount of the shit that is in and around Skid Row—figuratively and literally—but I have lived in cities worldwide over the last few decades and understand that what makes a city is something for everyone, not everything for one narrow demographic.
#11/12: I stated “publishing” not printing, you poor sod.
Straight Talk Express:
I love Downtown. The Historic core is great, and even South Park (EWWWW) where I live can be fun. I ate lunch at the Nickel today and it was awesome. I had the Smac and Cheese. They gave us free 5cent Ding Dongs. RAD
I’m a huge fan of the Bus Bench and Browne kinda gives me a halfie. I would gladly bed a USC student. White girls, asians, whatever. Probably not a downtown drifter.
Faux outrage makes me laugh. Thus, the outrage at the article in question is hilarious, since there is nary an outrageous word to be found.
Browne: by displaced I do mean homeless, but I figure lots of folks around here have homes in the SRO’s, and didn’t want to sound judgmental. Perhaps our numerous service providers do offer the chance to make a real transition, rather than simply housing drunks each night.
BusTard: yeah, the balance between gentrified and authentic has to be more nuanced than either feces or Fendi. One of the reasons my husband and I love LA (compared to SF and NYC) is that it feels like a middle ground, where people of all (most?) economic means can live. Perhaps it’s a delusional, “Stuff White People Like” pipe dream?
I hear ya! I watched LES get screwed (and is getting even worse). Brooklyn was in a bad way (not just Williamsburg, mind you but Bed Stuy, Bay Ridge, Red Hook, and many points along the East River and bay edges; even Borough Park is having problems holding it back, I hear).
BusTard – i hear yea!
just to clarify for all the insipid backward corn-fed idiots who never bothered to travel and eat delicious ethnic foods for real cheap prices, LES stands for Lower East Side which is the lower east side of the island of Manhattan, closest to Brooklyn. I lived in NYC (New York City) for years on and off in the 80′s 90′s and 2000′s. I’m talking like Bed Stuy, Williamsburg, Morgan ave., Greenpoint, and other diverse ethnic neighborhoods in the Big Apple (New York City) that were truly industrial! But the thing was you could have a little mom and pop place that stood up to the Dominican domino-playing drug lords who still dominate the area using bedbugs infestations as “rent control” these days- sorry site indeed.
My point here is 911 changed everything, I was there, I know I’ll never forget. For people like me and BudTard things are different living here in LaLa Land (los angeles) where people just don’t get it. So when some fucknut students start mistaking dog piss for human piss I get pissed, real pissed. A little note to the student journalists, take a page from a little paper called THE NEW YORK TIMES. study it, read it, learn it, then come back to me.
I was in Arcadia the other day taking a staycation with this waitress friend of mine. Sucked her damn titties straight off. Anyways, saw like 8 piggly wigglies and it made me think. What is this we’re trying to do? Is this the resting point for the rest of civilization? I mean Christ, you cum to downtown to visit Spearmint RHino with all the tourists and u can’t even get a lap dance worth a damn while your buddy is finger banging and all you can think of is why am I not more upset? When I was 22 I would have come home in tears. Three trips to Charleston to meet chick from Craigslist and you’ll know the meaning of “dog piss” and you’ll sure as hell be able to discern it from “bum piss”. Things are a lot like wine in that way, as is Downtown. After all, isn’t it those fermented grapes that transcend class and race, from the lowly wino to the Japanese Epicurean living high above Ralphs in Market Lofts. But does the dog have any say?
^^that’s heavy. and kind of beautiful? oddly. sounds like drunk writing – in the best possible sense.
Tyler: “I was in Arcadia the other day taking a staycation with this waitress friend of mine. Sucked her damn titties straight off. Anyways, saw like 8 piggly wigglies…” Is your virtual pen penis-shaped and raping Chucks Manson and Bukowski?
iLOVEnewyork: How about that L outta Union Station, with face-plants for those who dared to not hold on (fastest damn train on the MTA, hey!), sour looks if yer over 25 and dread if you were hoping to get a seat at The Archive to get on-line (which for a white guy was not nearly as bad—especially at night when walking from the L through Bushwick!).
I would love to love LES, but the romper rooms in the cafes along Ave A, the 10th Street library’s ever-limited hours and the frat-boy and tourists that nightly fill Richard’s bar (Manitoba’s) made me sad even when I visited last December.
I lived in SoHo & the East Village in the 70s and 80s, and although I visit NYC a few times a year it is so fully sanitized now I don’t miss living there at all. Apartments that sold for $40,000 in 1985 in the LES (or Loisaida, as some of us called it) are worth 1.5 million now. That is NOT a good thing.
Downtown LA is an amazing place. The term “gentrification” is the wrong word for what is happening here. Not sure I have a better description, but unlike NYC, there is a limit to how high the prices can go. There will always be room for all levels of income as we are beginning to see now with the deflation of housing prices. Next to come down will be the rents. Some of the developers will go under, and maybe things ought to get even cheaper. Fun times.
I’m going to have to agree with Bert the NY that BusTard and ilovenewyork is completely dead and EXTREMELY unaffordable to anyone in the field of humanities that doesn’t have a trustfund to sleep on.
You can still dream in LA, but in NY wow…it’s so expensive. To just go out and eat and drink you can easily blow through a $1000 dollars, you can blow through $500 if you are trying to be economical. I don’t cook. I have always like eating out for breakfast, lunch and dinner and I like going out to drink. I can easily do that everyday in LA with not damage to my bank account, but in NY it’s crazy in regards to price out there even in LES.
The richness of NY truly shocked me. LA is very, very cheap and doable in comparison to NY.
NY is sophisticated, but unless you have lots of cash and connections there is virtually no way to get anything done there, just doing the normal networking out there would take a real income that you can’t get from freelancing and then to open up a gallery or a store or to publish, there is no way the average person could do anything in NY but sweep the floor and be happy they lived in an aweome place. They couldn’t do anything, they can’t afford to, they can’t even afford to quit their job.
In LA if you are clever you don’t have to work, not really and I don’t mean being on welfare, but you can freelance an existance you can do a little of this and a little that and still go to bars and have fun. In NY you have to work hard all the time even going out you have to iron your clothes and comb your hair and crap, its just a much harder city to live in.
As a person who is not brainwashed by the old NY, because I wasn’t there I can say that NY is a great place, but unless your grandpa was loaded you aren’t going to be able to do anything there but look.
Downtown LA is a much better option in todays time, even though I will continue to say if you’re a black person that doesn’t feel the need to vomit your credentials every twenty minutes and dress like a mom or a corporate monster the police and security here bother you on Montgomery, Alabama 1950s levels…that’s a bad aspect of downtown which is way different than any other part of LA, but you can make it here.
You can focus and do whatever you want in LA.
I should say LA is affordable if you don’t have kids. If you are single and you want to do something artistic and live around artistic people.
If you have kids I don’t know. LA doesn’t seem that affordable if you have kids that can talk and ask for stuff, though things are getting cheaper, but many people are losing their jobs, so I don’t know who is going to be able to afford it with kids in the mix even when things get cheaper. I would think if I had kids that I’d want them to go to the best school possible and not have to worry about crime or bad oddness and that would probably have to include some kind of tuition of some kind. It seems to be only a couple of decent schools out here in the public school arena and the waiting school lists seem pretty long.
If I had kids I would have different priorities and I would probably move to Humboldt or Seattle or Portland, even though I don’t find any of those places that entertaining.
You could homeschool your kids, but I was homeschooled and I don’t think it is a good idea, though with more people doing it and with some more structured socialization experiences that maybe something that could be an option.
I heard Cerritos has some good schools, but then you would be trapped in that LA car and freeway life.
And to bring the conversation full circle, the Nickel would be impossible in New York
Not sure I have a better description, but unlike NYC, there is a limit to how high the prices can go.
Part of that is due to LA, unlike NYC, being an economy not of the Fortune 500 and Wall Street, but of smaller businesses. Also, LA has seen a lot more flight of the monied class to other communities. By contrast, NYC (meaning Manhattan) has held on to more of that over the past 50 years.
LA can survive without downtown LA, but NYC cannot survive without Manhattan. That is both a blessing and a curse, for either city.
In my own opinion, I think the layout of NYC is overly extreme in terms of centralization, concentration. It’s overkill.
However, LA has been hurt from leaning in the opposite direction. But if the city in the future can find a nice middle point between the two extremes, it may end up with the best of both worlds.
Downtown LA should not be compared with the island of manhattan. The area from Downtown to Santa Monica is “our manhattan.”.
Best part of NYC? The pizza!!
L.A. needs a mayor like Giuliani. I lived in New York during the 70′s and early 80′s moved to LA during mid 80′s and early 90′s and back to NY around ’96. Giuliani cleaned that place up! Many don’t realize. While I am sure many of the above would argue on the source we would probably agree that massive improvements were made from 1990 to today. Downtown LA needs the same thing. Problem is only 30k people live in downtown – 99.9% of the pop is not downtown as opposed to Manhattan – well put Rich – *Downtown to SM is our Manhattan*. I digress. First order, get the bums out. Spend more money on cleaning/security. Continue to encourage housing/retail. Not sure if this has ever been done, but to keep “chains” from continuing to infiltrate downtown (Roys, Palm, Mortons, Yard House) – give extra benefit to folks that open up their first restaurant/shop. These chains were an important first step though.
did anyone see the daily trojan article about the expo line?
i think damien goodmon ghostwrote it … now that he is bed with the cheviot hills homeowners assocation, why not USC nimbys too stupid to want public transportation right on campus?
http://media.www.dailytrojan.com/media/storage/paper679/news/2008/09/18/News/For-Community.Light.Rail.Is.No.Blessing-3438504.shtml
oh no we cant make a left turn onto figueroa! and oh the community! and the children!
stephen and rich:
i’m a devoted angelenic fan- i check it several times at work daily for new articles and updates…
…and while i regret adding to the most boring string of comments i’ve seen on the site: this is the first article that has truly dissapointed me. it didn’t have much to say, and its tearing apart a college level article that’s not very interesting. why waste your time commenting on amateur journalism? there MUST be more interesting things to report on…
^ Sure. There are many more interesting things to report on — which we do daily. This was just one in a string of stories we’ve done over the past several days and has already been swallowed up by other things (and it’s only Monday).
Thanks for reading. I know we won’t always agree on what’s important or worthy, but there’s some interesting commentary in the previous 83 comments.
The good thing about this blog is if you don’t like a story, there will always be a new one in a few hours.
#83:
Rich said most of it, but to me, it’s not commenting on amateur journalism, it’s about opening a discussion (albiet a very controversial one) on the way some people still view one of Downtown’s most original neighborhoods. It reminds us of the challenges Downtown on a much broader scale still faces today.
Much of why the 15-18 million people in the five-county LA region never visit the region’s urban and culture center is based on misguided (or lack of) information — much like that found in the Daily Trojan article. The ironic thing to me is, USC to some is even considered part of Downtown — imagine how someone in say, Sun Valley or Norwalk, must view the heart of the city. I can’t imagine the opportunity Downtown is missing out on.
This had to be put on the table and discussed, not avoided — although I do wish I had a more credible punching bag to present.
Still, with 84 comments and counting, my decision to write about it has been validated.
Anyway…. on to more cheery topics – up next, Downtown’s newest bakery opens!
As much as I love my alma mater, USC’s Daily Trojan is pretty much the crappiest college paper in the country. Which is saying a lot for a school with such an excellent journalism program. They let anybody write for the paper and offer little to NO training on reporting. All to say: I’m NOT surprised at how awful and ill-informed this girl’s piece is. Same thing happened when I was doing PR for another museum in town, the 20-year-old DT reporter chose to slam our critically-acclaimed show in order to prove her journalistic chops, chops which included copious typos and factual errors.
i agree with stephen and rich:
i mean i go to the school and it’s plain to see that a lot of the student body don’t really understand the neighborhood which isn’t because of stupidity or necessarily because of suburban upbringings (i grew up in a suburb and i feel like i’m not blind to the situation). it’s because of, in my opinion, a county wide prejudice. only ten years ago downtown wasn’t a safe community or even a community. very few people except the homeless even lived here then. the revitalization is happening so quickly compared to other revitalized locations of the past like long beach or venice that people haven’t had a lot of time to shift there views. blogs like this and people like us change that but not through bashing a local college and their newspaper but by understanding what it means and trying to change viewpoints one person or blogger at a time.
USC = Hot horny frat cock = awesome! They are all invited downtown as much as possible in my book. Come on down boys.
Also speaking from a PR standpoint, having worked with many, many college journalists, including writers from the Daily Trojan, they usually seem to confuse the role of “journalist” with the role of “critic” and feel like they need to denounce everything set in front of them. (Though true critics come from an informed point of view.) It’s not unusual to find unfair and short-sighted opinions among people whose bills are paid in full courtesy of mum and pops.
of course i’ll keep reading- and i agree with Katie 100%, the daily trojan is a crappy paper. i guess thats where my initial dissapointment kicked in.
i’m not defending the student author BUT i went to usc, and i agree that the students dont “understand the neighborhood”, but thats because crime is high in that area. while i was there it was not uncommon for crime alerts about robbery, theft, and sometimes assault to go out several times a week, and they were all against students. i was scared out of my mind while i was studying there– and i’m from la!! it wasn’t until i graduated and started working and playing in the “real” downtown that i realized its not scary at all– ALSO, sometimes those fresh-off-the-farm midwest kids just don’t know how to deal with an “urban” setting. they’ll figure it out eventually….
sorry to say guys, but the jews, blacks and whites are LOSING the game of life. the next 100 years are going to be the days of spanish speaking Hispanics and Muslims. just look at the NUMBERS.
…get used to it.
i have to say that this is the most embarrassing series of comments i have ever read on angelenic. i completely agree with ‘anonymous’ that there is nothing ‘racist,’ ‘homophobic’ or ‘sexist’ about the article. to say so is to be so skewed in intellectual perception that i have a hard time articulating an effective retort in fear that the guilty parties would not adequately understand. and ‘kevin’ is the icing on the cake. what the fuck does the demographic shift of los angeles have to do with the point at hand: that some people feel, reasonably so, a bit wary of venturing downtown. i love downtown, and many of my friends do, but there is nothing wrong with those who don’t. a bit middle-class or suburban perhaps, but throwing around ‘racist’ just exhibits a total misunderstanding of those very important terms. fred camino’s comments about others cultures not having lunch, etc. are so off the mark as to be HILARIOUS. i was seriously in stitches that someone could be so willing to stifle effective dialogue by throwing around ‘anti-muslim’ and ‘racist’ and, most hilariously of all, ‘homophobia.’ as a very proud and politically involved gay man i can assure you that there nothing about that article struck me as ‘homophobic,’ nor any of the other epithets of which you all seem to lack a clear understanding. and, finally, to say that usc students are some kind of bane on the community is the most gratuitous form of discrimination i can imagine. shame on all of you who made those comments for establishing some kind of normative ‘downtowner’ that should or should not include usc students. that is a much more explicit and frightening form of discrimination than anything evident in the daily trojan! good work defending yourself anonymous!
i can’t believe these crazy libs ether, bro.. Palin McCain 2008!
these people are crazy!
I’m an out of the closet gay man living in a wonderful downtown loft and all this race carding strikes me as ridiculous. “kevin’s” comment blows my mind, how someone can say that is amazing, he sounds like a nazi.
I know this, gays will always be around! PRIDE.
agree all the way
I went to The Nickel the other day, don’t see what all the fuss is about. It’s basically a TGIFridays without the kids menu. The only racist thing about this place is how the guys at the table next to me were having a LOUD conversation about something called “n****r town riots” which i found offense yet humorous, much like this comment thread. My companion, an African American model in her late teens had trouble finding the humor. The cupcakes are pretty good though.
I am still biting my tongue on this one… I agree with #92 “you are all crazy!”
Lewd and out of control is how I describe what has transpired here. Not much fun…
Lewd and out of control. Those are some of my favorite words!
Bryan H, stop biting! and let it out!
One more and we’ll have 100 comments on this thread!
Its 2-BAD! All of you are waisting time on your laptops when U should be heading out for some gurb at The Nickle? Im out of here and gonna eat some grub! BURP?
This is the post that just keeps on giving.
Oh and “Spring and Main Dweller” you live in the garage? Are you that dude in the orange van?
Just kidding. I had to say something. I know what you meant.
=]
(Previous comment removed)
Well, we passed 100 comments for the first time. Unfortunately it’s starting to get nasty up in here. Ability to comment removed on this post.