‘no on 8′ rally at pershing square this sunday
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UPDATE: Check out our recap of the event.
In response to a “Yes on 8” rally being held at City Hall this Sunday, November 2, grassroots group Roots of Equality are organizing a counter-protest at Pershing Square to show support for marriage equality, to be held from 1:00pm-4:00pm.
The group is recommending that everyone brings a sign, poster or banner, though a limited number will be available at the square the day of. Invite your friends and family to show how many people can stand up and fight discrimination. Gay or straight, no on 8.
Getting there: We recommend using the Metro Red/Purple Line Pershing Square Station for direct access to the park.
Will you be there? Let us know.
No on 8 Rally
Sunday, November 2, 2008
1:00-4:00pm
Pershing Square, 532 S Olive St
Los Angeles, CA 90013
noonprop8.com
62 comments
I’ll be there standing/shouting for marriage equality…!
I will be there with a bunch of my friends.
Could be a good place to meet some cute guys. Just sayin.
I hope to be there!
i’ll be there w/ my boyfriend and our friends!
why is this even an issue? obviously people that are gay want no on 8. And I am asking a serious question but I am seriously curious as to why people would be for proposition 8.
Who exactly would this be and what are their reasons? Isn’t pretty much a waste of money?
Anonymous: I think you’d be surprised at how many narrow-minded people there are out there. Remember, this issue was voted on once before in 2000, to (what I thought) surprising and disappointing results.
Don’t underestimate the number of ignorant people out there.
I was very surprised to see a church, or whatever it was(sorry, i forgot what denomination it was) with a NO on 8 banner in front of the building. It is on Washington, just east of Figueroa next to a gas station, and across the street from Popeye’s Chicken.
Anyhow, my wife and I will be there to show our support. My dog may even show up, maybe not though, by the sounds of it, it will be very crowded. Plus I have no idea how she feels on the matter!
sorry, I meant Adams just east of Fig.
Here are some reasons for YES on Prop 8 as asked for:
Marriage is the cornerstone of every civilization.
The question we should ask is, “Why should the government even be interested in recognizing marriage at all?” And the answer is that marriage is fundamental to the building blocks of our community. It is the means by which the next generation of children will be 1) created 2) protected and 3) nurtured. The state then has a HUGE interest in the creation of healthy marriages.
Homosexuality by definition cannot produce children. Even with adoption it has not been conclusively proven to be a natural habitat for the raising of children.
The state therefore does not condemn or approve of homosexuality. It just isn’t the fundamental building blocks of the community.
Vote Yes on Prop. 8. It isn’t a moral or immoral issue. It’s a civil issue.
“Homosexuality by definition cannot produce children.”
True. You know what can produce children? Stupid people. Teenagers. Drug addicts. Prostitutes. Poor people. Should we propose a proposition to ban these people from marrying and having children? You know, since it’s all about the kids.
If your argument is that gay people shouldn’t marry because they can’t provide a sound foundation for raising a family, where do YOU draw the line?
Just wondering….
Since when has “conclusively” proving a relationship is “a natural habitat for the raising of children” been a requirement to receive a marriage license from the state?
Marriage is A cornerstone of every civilization, not “the” cornerstone. And I believe it’s fairly recognized throughout the country that marriage is no longer a requirement or the only avenue to create and raise children.
I’m not even going to get into the argument on how others can judge our ability and “habitat” for the raising of children.
“Marriage is the cornerstone of every civilization.”
Civilizations thrive because of civility, law, order, productivity, equality, and strong governmental and cultural institutions. Marriage is ONE of those institutions but not the singular element that leads to a successful civilization. Prop. 8 is a civil rights issue. The issue being is it correct for the government to deny rights to a certain group of individuals on the basis of sexual orientation?
Agreed: “Marriage is A cornerstone of every civilization.”
And for MOST of our existence on earth, homo sapiens - as with other primates - have preferred a polygamous arrangement. With high infant mortality, the preservation of the species would more likely be guaranteed with the high birthrate polygamy would afford. The rich and powerful men had many wives; the poor maybe…maybe had one (but aspired to more).
Then, as our civilizations progressed, polygamy became less and less a factor in our survival. “Marriage” typically - but not always - morphed into a partnership between one man and one woman and as this was now recognized as the most practical, efficient system for raising children in most civilizations (but not all).
The point is, marriage is an INVENTION of civilization and as such, reflects the needs of that civilization and is subject to continual change and modification to suit that civilization. Just as polygamy was long ago the preferred, “traditional” system, times changed.
The times, they are a changin’, Derick!
there was a time when the only thing african-americans could do to sanctify their union was to jump over a broomstick. i think we can all agree how wrong that was, just as denying marriage equality to gays today is wrong.
my husband and i will be at pershing square on sunday and encourage all downtowners to do the same. no on 8.
Gay people just want everyone to be GAY
yes on 8….
marriage is Sane Between a man and a Woman..
a man and a man cannot have children
westbrook… that argument actually perfectly summarizes most yes on 8 proponents’ beliefs whether they acknowledge it or not. thanks for the enlightening comment
i’m bringing a gaggle of scary, scary gays with me on Sunday.
BOO!
and i also just gave another $50 to the cause today - maybe you can too?
http://www.noonprop8.com
check out the new Feinstein ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7LdC1RxvZg
I find it rather offensive that we even need to vote regarding peoples civil rights. We should all value our differences within the rule of law; a law that should be for ALL the citizens, not just some.
Christian Martinez, Publisher, Downtown LA Life Magazine
NO ON 8 - It’s the Civil Thing to Do!
Marriage Equality is a civil right that belongs to everyone. I have MANY friends that have been in long-standing relationships. However, because of many of the laws out there they still don’t have the rights that my straight married friends have.
When CA made it legal for my friends to marry they took the opportunity to do so: twice! First they were married by Mayor Gavin Newsome and again after the State Supreme Court enforced their right to marry . I don’t want to see their union be overturned because of the ignorance of others.
NO on 8!! I will be doing my very best to be there in support of my LGBT friends.
You can download free posters for “No on 8” at http://www.defendequalitynow.com Let’s make sure Prop 8 doesn’t pass!
Lets worry about civil rights on Hispanics. not the rights of Gays
that want everyone to BE gay so they can Marry everyone… they want…
it is dumb that they say its a civil rights thing. that is absolutely not true..
let’s worry about civil rights for all people, regardless of race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation.
btw, i received an email about my previous comment and i feel it important enough to address here rather than via email:
“What are you trying to imply? Is this a race thing?
I am African-American.”
no, it’s not “a race thing”. it’s an equality thing, regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation. i wasn’t “trying to imply’ anything, in fact it’s very clear - if you think it was wrong to deny marriage equality to african-americans then the logic follows that it is wrong to deny marriage equality to gay people.
and it doesn’t matter to me if you’re african-american or not, my viewpoint is still the same regardless of your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation. no on 8!
westbrook…I promise….I PROMISE…
I don’t want to marry you.
(Where do these right-wing whackos come up with this stuff?)
By the way, if it seems like you can’t fathom your Downtown neighbors spewing off this stuff, it’s most likely true. We’ve been getting a lot of hits to this post from Google News.
^good comment Celia!
It is indeed about civil rights for everyone. =)
Hi Everyone, The event is coming together quickly. We have celebrities, politicians, community members, and people-of-note all confirming and considering their attendance. We have also been working with the LAPD and Pershing Square to make sure the rally is a safe, fun event for all involved. A rally focused on marriage should be an event focused on LOVE! For the latest information on this event, visit http://www.OutinDowntownLosAngeles.com This link provides all the other links too. See you Sunday!
This is a civil rights matter. The denying of a right to one group by another.
All we want and need is EQUALITY!
3 cast members from Ugly Betty made a TV commercial for NO on 8 in espanol, I got it up on my blog.
The other side got pissed off when earlier this year the California Supreme court over turned the law in favor of marriage rights to same sex couples.
Remember when women couldn’t vote
When slavery was legal
When interracial marriage was illegal
“you” straight people have a legal civil right to “choose” to get married.
Gays and Lesbians do not want that right taken away either.
where’s the fairness and compassion?
NO on 8
Yikes, Ted ! Red is a good color when used in MODERATION. Having it as a background color for the entire website makes it nearly impossible to read, esp. for people with vision problems.
for those of you on facebook, you can add the event here: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=30461524900
The problem with calling it a “civil right’s issue” is that you have to define what those “rights” are. The idea of “equality” is a misleading one. If you want equality down the line you have to abolish any distinctions between a man and a woman. Having a men’s restroom and a women’s restroom is discriminatory as it is “separate but equal.” Women shouldn’t have such a thing as maternity leave because it discriminates against men who don’t have the same right when their wife has a child. Or men should have the same rights to take two months off when their spouses have a child.
We have to eliminate groups like the Girl Scouts or the Boy Scouts because they discriminate based on gender.
Again the central theme is the idea that marriage between a man and a woman is the cornerstone of civilization. If homosexuality were the cornerstone of any civilization it would by definition not survive another generation.
LA Lola writes: True. You know what can produce children? Stupid people. Teenagers. Drug addicts. Prostitutes. Poor people. Should we propose a proposition to ban these people from marrying and having children? You know, since it’s all about the kids.
My answer is that: Yes! We should desire “stupid people” and teenagers who are having a child outside of marriage and prostitutes to get married. What is the alternative? One of the great drains on society is single unwed mothers. We should desire teenage mothers to get married and have children in the context of a committed marriage. We should want even prostitutes to get into a committed relationship and thereby quit their profession. It is in the great interest of society for people (including “stupid people” ) to marry, pro-create and nurture families.
It is not a “civil rights issue” it is a civil issue and we should discuss it civilly.
Yes, as Derek rightly points out, since both men and women have access to restrooms, both heterosexuals and gay people should have access to the institution of marriage.
And, yes, of course, men who are involved in rearing a child should have access to leave from work, just as women who are involved in rearing a child should. What an excellent idea!
And, yes, of course, our gay forbears are indeed the cornerstone of Western civilization—Sappho, Plato, Shakespeare, Tchaikovsky, just to name a few.
We live in a democracy not a theocracy. That’s fine if one’s religion believes a marriage is only between a man and a woman. Keep that as a religious belief…not a law. Remember studying about the separation of church and state in school? I can only hope it’s now that we go past discrimination and not sometime in the future. (And I know it will happen. I’m a high school teacher and if the ballot were up to my students it would be defeated by 90%). I’ll be there Sunday with my brother and daughter!
Marriage is a human right:
1. Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
2. Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
3. The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
Definition from the U.N. http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/lang/eng.htm
Notice that there is no provision as to what sex the two parties in the marriage must be.
And Derick…
there are many unisex bathrooms but in general they are separate because of the different needs of both sexes. I for one don’t give a shit (pun!) if I’m in a unisex bathroom.
Oh and paternity leave exists, and is something most liberals and probably a lot of conservatives support.
Don’t even get me started on the boy scouts…
Why do you insist on claiming that heterosexual marriage is “THE” cornerstone of civilization. Plus, we never claimed that homosexuality is the cornerstone of civilization, we’re just a really cool part of it.
And your argument about the world being a better place with teenagers and prostitutes relies on the very shaky assumption that marriage will save them from their situation. The argument sounds as if marriage is some social panacea where teenage mothers will find supportive husbands and prostitutes will find gems to marry who will save them from hooking. You argue as if every heterosexual who gets married nurtures a healthy family who are positive contributors to society (and I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want that for homosexual families as well if that’s what you believe). In fact, for many if not most of these women, marriages can present unhealthy and sometimes abusive marriages that probably exceed the national average of 50% divorce.
But whatever you do don’t let two people of the same gender to marry!
“If homosexuality were the cornerstone of any civilization it would by definition not survive another generation. ”
Oh, that is rich. Where oh where in this or any other blog is anyone claiming that homosexuality is - or even should be - the cornerstone of civilization (m’s excellent point, aside)?
That homosexual marriage cannot by definition be a ‘cornerstone’ because it cannot produce children forces the question: Why aren’t heterosexual marriages REQUIRED to produce children?
You think that’s a dumb analogy? Good. Now you recognize your own.
See you all at the square on Sunday!
Teresa, the national statistics on divorce are around 33% not 50%. And even if it was it points to the failure of those who enter the institution not the failures of the institution itself. And if marriage itself is to blame, why are you advocating gay marriage?
Bruce the reason why heterosexual marriages are not REQUIRED to have children is the same reason why the state doesn’t require people to get married. Nobody can be forced into marriage and having children. But the state can give incentives to marriage and having children. That’s why families with children have tax credits.
But anyways I wanted to discuss this on the board so that we could spread information both ways so people can make a reasoned decision. If you go to the rally more power to you. Just make sure you know the arguments on the other side without demonizing them.
Derick,
i never claimed that marriage is bad, I just argued against your arguments that made heterosexual marriage seem like a cure-all. obviously marriage is an important way of recognizing families and giving people rights and responsibilities in creating family units. that’s why we want it.
I still don’t understand why anyone is so opposed to me and my wife getting a marriage license from the state of california, not your church, but the state of california.
Derick: Teresa’s stats appear to be closer than yours. You can play the stats many ways but it remains that currently, between 40% and 60% of NEW marriages will eventually end in divorce. I’m not claiming that that, in itself, is horrifying, but it certainly chips away at your “cornerstone of civilization” analogy.
Regarding REQUIRING people to have children. I was faulting your reasoning that a Homosexual Marriages’ inability to produce children was a REASON it could never be a “cornerstone of civilization.” Therefore, it correctly follows that membership in your vaunted “cornerstone” would only be realized through the production of offspring.
Or, how about this: Marriage applies to any two humans. Period. Straight, gay, man, woman. Have children. Don’t have children. You can still have your cornerstone.
P.S. Nobody’s “demonizing” anyone…westbrook maybe excepted.
See you there at the square!
As gay men and women, we should just keep our chins up. The Yes on 8 people think they are teaching the children a lesson. The children our watching us. They are watching a group who in the middle of adversity, stands in unity to be free. We are teaching the children what it means to be an American. As the soldiers fight to protect our freedoms, we are showing the children what they are fighting for. Despite hatred from their parents, they see our belief in America. This is what the children will remember. They will remember our smiles and our belief in the American dream. They will selectively forget the hatred expressed towards us, hopefully. Who wants to grow up and be hateful? No child I know.
We must continue to focus on the educated men and women in our society that whether they are gay or straight, they understand and want for us the same wonderful lives they are privileged to have. Focus on the ones who lift our heads up instead of tearing our spirits down. Focus on the grandmas that walk up to us and share with us that they hope we have all the same freedoms as their children and grandchildren.
Confusion is never popular. I don’t expect everyone to have the ability or the will to understand what it is like to be discriminated against. As a tall, white, ex-Baptist gay man from the Midwest, I was shocked to learn that I was gay. The next part of my realization was realizing that I myself had been teaching h8te and discrimination. I really didn’t know I was doing it when I was doing it. I thought I was lovingly encouraging gays and lesbians to find the right path towards God. I had no idea that my intention of loving people into the Kingdom was manifesting as h8te. It’s sort of like attempting to lose weight with Slim Fast diet shakes. We have the intention but the access, formula, and results are often weak.
The answer here is to communicate. Continue to tell our stories in the face of people not wanting to listen. Eventually, a majority of people will understand that we are only sharing our truth. We can’t all be lying. Sharing a truth out of a space of wanting people to understand that gay just happens. People are just born that way or grow up that way. People think we have some type of agenda. In reality, most gays just want to be left alone. It’s things like Prop 8 that make us have to fight for our civil liberties. I don’t know one person who wouldn’t fight for their own personal civil rights or personal freedoms. They think we are weak-willed individuals that will use THEIR REASONS to stop standing up for ourselves. It’s simply insane. For some people, they just can’t believe I was born attracted to the same sex. For the people who watched me grow up, they all knew I was gay since about 5. For the people that don’t know me, they don’t believe you can be born that way. Interesting that if you ask two different groups, they have to different stories about me. Hmmmm.
In the end, we have one option. Stand. Stand up the way every group in America has stood up when they have faced individuals that do not think that group is equal. When American’s enslaved blacks, when they stopped women from voting, when they emprisoned Asians and made them build railroads. We must stand up as they stood up. We are no exception. We also have an obligation to stand up for OTHERS that may be facing similar situations in the future. There are other minorities that are watching us and learning about freedom. It may not be the “Gay” issue, but it just might be any other area of discrimination.
The bottom line for me is, I am proud to be an American. I’m not a Russian. I’m not a European. I’m not a Mexican. I’m not an African. I am an American. I will stand up for the greatest part of what it means to me to be an American and that part is that I’m free and equal. We are ALL Americans. We are ALL free. Vote no on 8. See you this Sunday at the Rally!
I want to share a letter I got from a very good friend who I use to be a tour guide with at Universal Studios. She is straight, married, and has two children. We have kept up over the years. It was about 8 years ago that we last worked together. But here is the second part of a letter I got from her today. Please pay attention to the part where she speaks about her young son who I believe must be around 8 years old.
Melissa writes…
I am touched that you’re so moved by our support. I wish more than anything that this will turn out in your favor. It saddens me so deeply to see people trying to strip away rights in the name of “God”. Today we passed a group of people holding “No” signs and we stopped and joined them! It was so exciting to hear the outpouring of support (lots of honks and thumbs up!) in such a conservative area. It really gave me hope. I was also excited to see how Sage has jumped into this cause. I’m so proud of him! (Quinn is still too little to understand what is going on.) Sage has said the most profound things since he began to understand what is happening. “Why do they think that God doesn’t like love?” and “This is just silly. Love is love is love.” This kid really gets it. He made his own protest sign and came up with a slogan himself, it reads “Don’t destroy love. NO on prop 8”. We carry it in the car with us wherever we go so we can hop out at a moments notice and stand with other NO protesters. (By the way my sign reads “Straight but not Narrow. No on H8, No on 8!”)
You have our undying love and support Ted. Always.
Give our love to Drew too. :o)
Big supportive hugs,
Melissa
(I posted this with her permission and I’ll be reading it at the Rally)
The pro-8 crowd really thinks we must be stupid. Does anyone really think we have not heard all the arguments against gay people, from the day we were born?
I do not need anyone here to “explain” to me the arguments in favor of Prop 8. Every institution in our society has pounded that message of hatred every day of every year. Enough.
This measure is backed by and paid for by the Mormon Church. It is an attempt to impose their religious beliefs on us. There is an argument to be made that the Church should have its non-profit status stripped for political activities. I support that.
If the Prop 8 adherents really believed that marriage was only about procreation, they would be working just as hard at outlawing divorce, preventing non-procreative marriages, etc. It’s simply bullshit, and their campaign needs to resort to lies and smears to scare people, especially immigrant groups that don’t speak good english. Watch this Mandarin ad that claims that in Prop 8 does not pass, people will be able to marry animals and children:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mog3JVbbHDU
These freaks need to be stopped. This is not about a simple disagreement, it it an attempt to destroy people’s civil rights. It won’t stop here, either. If it passes, following it will be proposals for bans on gay people in various jobs, etc. Where does it end? Gas chambers?
There is NO VALID argument for Prop 8. It is hatred, pure and simple, History is filled with shameful periods where people have used religion to kill others. This is no different.
look two dudes and two chicks cannot have kids… how are they going to reproduce…
Come one First the Gays get set loose to marry eachother..
then they cant produce any kids
population growth declines
their adoptive kids will be gay
then gay population with grow..
more people with aids.
more gays……
then what about the sane. NORMAL…. Mother and father husband and wife…..
who is going to give the same love a mother gives and the same teachings of a father…
COME On marriage Values are Pure.. and should remain pure..
… two straight people can have a normal conversation
when homosexuals… desire sex talk..
its not about civil rights.. because marriage is not something the government came out with… it is something that has been with human kind for ages.. but since now… people are corrupt… they want that
A radio station yesterday interviewed a woman who has worked many years in California as a professional Marriage Counselor. She said (I’m paraphrasing here…):
“During my counseling I will, of course, ask each couple what they believe to be the root cause of their marital problems. Never has anyone blamed their problems on ‘the married gay couple down the street.’”
“Gay marriage is a threat to “traditional marriage?” Give us a break.
P.S. Well said Bert, as always.
Westbrook is a murderer. Watch out for people like this. They will kill you.
Westbrook, I don’t think anyone is arguing with you that two men/women can’t reproduce between them without the other sex, but gee thanks for explaining the birds and the bees to all of us. Who said you had to be married to have kids, anyways?
Your “logic” is completely irrational. And by the way, you forgot to add ” if we let a man marry a man, what’s next? people marrying goats?!?!?!” I love that one.
I invited more friends on Facebook to the rally.. thanks for posting that link!
I’m praying that people actually read the ballot and understand that they voting on whether or not to ELIMINATE rights for a group of people. This really is a big deal - we’re changing the state’s Constitution to take away rights. It’s crazy!
I voted by mail and turned in my ballot on Wednesday.
NO on Prop. 8 and Barack Obama for president.
Some people are just dumb and ignorant, yes you westbrook.
Can you vote and have you?
Anyways its about a CIVIL right and equality.
Put aside your religious personal beliefs.
And yes the Mormon Church or any church that gets into the political should have their tax-exempt status revoked.
true Lola .. then marriage between man and Dogs are next … that is so disgusting….
and Bert Green, if you think a person who cares about marriage values is a murderer… your crazy man…
i hope Prop 8 passes
Hey westbrook: If you can find me a dog that can sign a marriage license, I’LL marry it.
By the way, Jake and I are getting our marriage solemnized tomorrow in a civic ceremony.
Yes, westbrook, you are a killer. Hide behind your religion if you want, but it’s true and everyone knows it but you.
You know nothing about values. You use phony, bullshit arguments to further an agenda that would rather we be dead. I for one will not shut up about this.
Your religion teaches love and respect for others. Why do you ignore its teachings? Go to hell where you belong.
westbrook i truly feel bad for you. i am sorry.
why is anyone even responding to his comments anymore?
to take a page from his book: using logical argument or even simple english with him is like explaining calculus to a dog
Because in this case people like him need to be publicly crushed. Humiliated. People’s lives are at stake.
Westbrook, There is a certain logic to your ideas. If you allow me, I would like you to follow along a story with me. I remember when I had this old television set that my grandmother gave me for college. I loved that television set because it followed me from college to Nashville, to Gatlnburg, to Atlanta, to Culver City, to a loft in Downtown Los Angeles. The TV finally lost it’s picture after 20 years. When the image finally left, I remember sitting there thinking, “Now what am I going to do?”
I racked my brain to find a solution that didn’t have anything to do with getting rid of that television. I thought about using it as a plant holder, a piece of art, etc. I just kept thinking of all the different things that would let me hold onto what it was that it allowed me to see. It also gave me a certain attachment to what I have since lost. Having it around, reminded me daily of the relationship I had with one of the most important people in my life.
Finally, I thought about all the good times I had with my grandma. I thought about why she bought me a television in the first place. She bought me a new television because she wanted her grandson to have the best of everything. She wanted me to have a television in college. Now when I look back, I don’t remember all my friends having their own television. But that television stayed with me for all those years. Not because it was an awesome television, but because my grandmother gave it to me. After grandma died, I kept that thing like it was worth a million dollars, because the meaning it brought to my life. It represented the love my grandma had for me. It represented her generosity. It also let me believe that though she was gone, she was still with me. It represented so many things I was present to and so many things I’ve forgotten.
When I through the television away, I replaced it with a HUGE television. My life partner and I have a 65 inch television. It’s awesome. It’s the best television we could find and it will be with me for years—maybe 20 or more. We bought it together and it makes us both happy. What this television doesn’t do for me is tie me to the past. It doesn’t teach me what I known about generosity, because this one cost $4500. It doesn’t remind me of college, but it reminds me of 5 years ago when I first met Drew. It doesn’t remind me of something I’ve lost. This TV reminds me of someone I found.
In the end, sometimes the ideas we carry with us, carry with them a lot of meaning. Your beliefs on marriage I’m sure represent things that no one online will ever completely understand. They are personal and private. They might even feel like they make you the man you are. They are things you’ve been taught or have decided carry special meaning. There is nothing more you hope for but to find that special someone and create a wonderful relationship with them. It may represent to you the stage in your life where you get to create a relationship that resembles something you remember as being wonderful with parents or grandparents. When you hear about gay marriage (let’s call that a new television set), you hear something that doesn’t occur to you as very necessary agenda. It’s not needed according to your life experience. There is no value in it for you, your family or anyone you know. Matter of fact, it might even put at risk the way you see things. I can definitely see how you can view things this way. It’s very human to firmly believe whatever it is you believe. I support you in your freedom to believe in what you choose to make things mean.
My question to you is this. What if at the same time you believe one way about marriage because of your reasons and history, another life on this planet is discovering something very different. I’m at a part in my life where I realize that the things I’ve been taught about marriage don’t apply to me. I have to let go of the idea that I’m going to have children and grandchildren that look like me. I’ve had to give up that I would be going to school plays to see my kids that look like me or football games because I discovered that instead of having attraction to the opposite sex. I’m attracted to the same sex. Even if I knew the reason why, it isn’t something that people have any success at changing. It simply is the way it is. I am at a point in my life where I’m needing to get a new television. After being true to myself 20 years ago, I now realize that I want to have what was promised to me as a child. I was promised that when I grew up I was going to get married. I was going to have a partner that loved me and hoped the best for me until the day I die. Now, this story doesn’t end the way i thought it would when it started for me. I didn’t think I would ever have to get rid of the old TV and buy a new one. But I realized that being honest with myself and others was the best solution for my spirituality, sexuality, and mental well-being. Yep, the new TV is what is best for me. Some people might think it’s too much or too nice or too expensive, but what they don’t understand is. It’s what I’m left with because I had to give up something else.
I hope you can understand that my desire to marry doesn’t in any way come from a space of me wanting you and your family to enjoy this life any less. But as a part of your community, I think it is best that I live an honest, forthright, life. I also believe that because I am an American, we should have the same access to the same freedoms. For example, we should both be able to walk into Circuit City and buy whatever television we want. The television should meet our wants, budget, desires, and dreams of watching a good film. I want to marry my life partner. I want to have a chance to have a family of my own. I don’t know what they will look like, but I have to continue to find the courage to be honest with myself and my partner. Together, we have to figure it out. With your help as a Voter, I can have the same equal chance that you have to live a powerful, successful life. I do understand the difficultly in giving up an idea that means a lot to you. It might mean taking on a new way of seeing it. You don’t have to vote for this civil liberty I want. But I want you to do that for me, my life partner, and all the gay people across this country. I know it could be challenging. I believe it is possible to see things new. Living your life this way, allows you to have hope that when old things die off, new things will fill its place. It’s not bad, it’s just different. If you want, I’d love for you and your wife to come visit with my life partner and I. We can watch a movie or football game on this TV. You’ll love the picture.
i really don’t think he can even understand our arguments enough to know that he should be crushed. his karma will come back at him but unfortunately our well thought out simple arguments and even insults bounce right off the blankness behind his eyes.
westbrook is a plant. He is not stupid, but he is delusional. His “church” tells him what to do.
No need to explain to all the ignorant peeps why NO on 8.. they will never get it.. they don’t have the mental ability to “get it.” Don’t get caught up in the negativity. The die hard “yes on 8er’s” are going to eat crow! Someday, us homo’s won’t have to fight so publicly about our rights. Just as a woman can float right it and cast our vote… gay people will be able to float right in and get married. The fight will be a fight of yesterday. Gavin is right … “you can’t stop us… it’s going to happen, whether you like it or not ! ! ! ” This is the FUTURE! ! ! Don’t get discouraged if 8 DOES pass.. we WILL have our day with no worries! !! (although I fully believe… people aren’t as ignorant as the people who support prop
It’s california for crying out loud ! ! No worries people… just be sure to VOTE VOTE VOTE ! !
oh yeah… for the religious gay bashers… W.W.J.D.??? Seriously?? Didn’t Jesus promote acceptance, tolerance, and equality?? Jesus NEVER mentioned anything about gay people.
And our constitution also has a little snip-it about “freedom of religion” MY church just so happens to have same sex marriage…. what next… a constitutional amendment for “freedom of religion only for straight people?”
just my 2 cents
Love to all … even to the people who don’t want to share equal rights.
oh yeah…. I’ll be there, with my fiance and 3 kids.. and many friends and other family members :)
religion?
i never mentioned religion
westbrook, you don’t need to mention religion. It’s obvious. You’ve been brainwashed. Your retarded ideas about gay people come directly from the religious playbook:
“Come one First the Gays get set loose to marry eachother..
then they cant produce any kids
population growth declines
their adoptive kids will be gay
then gay population with grow..
more people with aids.
more gays……”
You are a fucking idiot. Go to hell, where you belong.
It’s so funny some of these comments about how Gays want everyone to be Gay. That is insane. Gay people want the same rights as EVERYONE else, we should not be forced to live a life any less than the STRAIGHT people that want US to be like them. Do not be afraid of the unknown , that is the main reason this is such an issue. I am Lesbian woman and OH I am a Christian too and guess what, I hold my banner of Christ before I dare raise a rainbow flag. Why? Cause contrary to popular belief Christ came to teach LOVE NOT HATE. No matter what happens on this issue we should not be treated any different than anyone else… And we will still be here… working for you, living next to you, HAVING CHILDREN… And PREACHING THE GOSPEL!!!!
Trent, very nice post. I’m pretty much a libertarian - which would mean I would normally have voted no on 8, except the education commercials. When I realized that teachers could teach what it means to be gay to 6 year olds, I thought - well that’s not the right to be left alone anymore.
Ideally, I think schools shouldn’t brainwash students at all and should just stick to the basics. When kids can’t read, write or do arithmetic, why are schools spending any time and money on social brainwashing-but we all know that they do. Perhaps if people saw all the other brainwashing that public schools engage in, it would raise a debate about that, and then the schools brainwashing ways wouldn’t have affected prop 8. But until that day, at least for me, prop 8 was the victim of public schools, not its own merits.
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