sound off: pershing square dog park
Attention, Downtown dog owners: Pershing Square is getting a dog park, but the Pershing Square Advisory Board needs your input to help make it a success.
Pershing Square has received a lot of attention lately, as the surrounding neighborhoods continue to draw new residents and tourists. Though adding new landscaping and/or a dog area is a stopgap measure until funding can be secured for a complete redesign, it will go a long way toward improving the quality of life of local pet owners.
Four proposals include a landscape-only plan (no dog park) in the Palm Court, a dusty pocket of Pershing Square near the corner of 5th and Hill; a 2,235-square foot dog park plus landscaping improvements in the Palm Court; and a 4,061-square-foot dog park along 6th Street.
The schemes follow last year’s redesign proposal that included exercise equipment and a lawn. That plan was roundly rejected by members of the community and eventually scuttled by 9th District Councilwoman Jan Perry, because of a lack of outreach.
A second round of meetings made it clear that the many pet owners in the neighborhood demand a dog park. Since funding has been allotted, construction can begin once approvals are obtained.
Below is a summary of the proposals. Click on the plan number for a visual representation of the plans.
Plan 1 and Plan 2: Palm Court Planting and Irrigation Improvements (“No dog park” proposals)
- Lawn panels and low-water-use planting areas; decomposed granite pathways
- Long decorative-planting area and long decomposed granite pathway south of stairwell (Plan 2 would see this area become a lawn)
- Six-month construction period
Plan 3: Palm Court Planting and Irrigation Improvements & 2,355 Square-Foot Dog Park
Same as Plan 1, but area south of emergency stairwell is reconstructed into a fenced dog park
- Underground drainage system and K-9 synthetic turf system
- Doggy drinking fountain, litter bags, signage, trash receptacle w/cover
- 1.5 to 2-year construction period
Plan 4: 4,061 Square-Foot Dog Park at 6th Street
- Reconstruct the upper terrace area of the 6th Street bosque into a fenced dog park
- Underground drainage system and K-9 synthetic turf system
- Dog park entry up existing ramps at each end of bosque
- Doggy drinking fountain, litter bags, signage, trash receptacle w/cover
- Omega-type fencing 1.5 to 2-year construction period
At this point in the planning process, your feedback is necessary to gather the needs and wants of the community.
Ideas gathered here will be presented to the Pershing Square Advisory Board next month and included as public comment. Let us know what you think!
99 comments
As a dog owner in Downtown, I am one of those who strongly feel we are in need of a dog park around here. Right now, the only place I know of where dogs can run freely around here is when the pet boutique Pussy & Pooch has their monthly Mutt Mingle. It’s a great event, but unfortunately it’s only once a month. We need a place where we can go any day of the month.
My vote is for Plan 4, since it looks like it’s the most accomodating for dogs. I would also like to see benches for humans to sit in or around the fenced area. The only negative aspect I see for this plan is that it will take 1.5 to 2 years to complete. I want see this built now! But I guess all good things come with a little bit of patience..
This is an excellent idea (either of the dog park plans), what our Los Angles downtown is in lack of is a central city park and to make one a dog park would be awesome. In the urban landscape that is our downtown pet owners and their perspective pets will enjoy a gated area for them to play and enjoy the beautiful weather that California gives to us. It would be a great step into becoming an even more inhabitable Downtown!
no grass/dog or human park – more concrete/purple and yellow towers
how about turning it to what it was years ago? see picture
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~calosan2/photos/PershingSquarePostCard.jpg
Sad that with such little public plaza spaces downtown that turning Pershing Square into a litter box would even be considered.
I’d rather see dogs than crackheads. Fence up, dogs in and make it a place residents will want to spend time !
17×17 yds (i.e. plan 3) is not big enough to sustain a dog park (is that math right?). In fact, that’s tiny. I would love a dog park downtown, but Plan 3 won’t work. If the city is actually going to spend the coin to properly maintain Plan 4, go with it for sure. Otherwise, go with Plan 2. But be warned that if Plan 2 is chosen, it’s just going to be another homeless hangout. Like Chris says, at least a dog park will give the space function (and keep out the bums).
I have never been a fan of dog parks. I’d much rather have a pleasant space for humans to gather, like the picture #3 posted.
YES! This is the most exciting thing to happen to Downtown in a long time. I do agree with Anthony though, Plan 3 is WAY too small. Plan 4 is really the only appropriate option.
Also – it would be great to have Pershing the way it was back in the day – just give a quarter of it to the dogs. Happy Puppies.
god it would be so cool to have a park like the postcard pictured. if you go onto the los angeles central library’s website you can find the coolest old pictures of pershing square. like this one…
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics50/00059979.jpg
i love dogs and dog parks but i’m not sure this would be the best place for one. if we could make it an actual park both dogs and humans could still enjoy it right?
I’m for a dog park if they can maintain it properly. If they can keep it clean and safe I would love to take my dogs there, but if they put a derelict patch of grass in and don’t make any other changes then ‘no thanks’!
If not a dog park, then I’d just hope that they keep it from being a homeless campground. It would be nice if they returned it to the state in the postcard posted above, or – even better – planted some native vegetation.
Ideally, Pershing Sq would be the main central square, a sort of front yard for a renewed downtown, complete with a rebirth of retail in the area, sidewalk cafes ringing the park, etc. You know, like a real city central square.
Now, at best, that’s a medium- to long-term view, and not terribly compatible with a dog park, in my opinion. In the shorter term, however, as Pershing Square is a LONG way from playing the aforementioned role (largely because it’s surrounding neighborhood doesn’t support it), if adding a dog park helps us get there, sounds good to me (and my dog Rex).
I understand why people without dogs wouldn’t want to put up with the smell of a dog park, but why not put the park to better use. I think plan 4 would be the best- anything to get rid of the homeless people. I took my dog there once and a homeless man yelled at me for letting her pee on the grass. Apparently that was rude of her because people sleep there.
YAY FOR HOMELESS PARK!!!! PUT UP WITH THE SMELL OF ME AND MY MONEY ASKING WAYS. I remember when Pershing square use to look like the picture on that post card, I use to ask for nickels bag then, now I ask for dollars INFLATIONs a bitch aint it!!!
its a dog park you idiots not a Mangy mutt park!!
as if dogs smell that bad, I’ve had drinks next to a few of you and ordered my coffee in line next to you, you anti social sour asses smell worse than any crack head or dog I’ve ever had the pleasure of sniffing.
Plan ! or 2 sound good for a new homeless camp ground we’ll all just move over from skid row its only a short walk, dont worry we’re friendly we’ll invite ya’ll to the house warming catered by your friendly neighborhood trash can and all you can shot ROCK COCAINE YAY!!!!!!!!
Now plans 3 and 4 sound great, the keep up of the facility would be relatively low and it would be a step into an alternative activity to do in Downtown other than staying in your fancy loft reading this shit!!!
Just to add to what I said before… I think Pershing should be restored to what it looked like in those photos, but I think a good idea would be to put a small building in the park that could be rented out to a coffee shop that could set up tables and chairs out front. Having people actively going in and out of the park to use the coffee shop would cut down on the number of homeless people in the park, and make it feel more livable.
#14, I think that’s an awesome idea.
Can LA do something right for a change?
dog park? are you kidding? We have such a shortage of adult human public space, especially where people can eat or have a drink in the open. A dog park only serves dog owners and is not compatible with sanitation.
Union Square in San Francisco is a perfect model for what Pershing Square could be.
I’d love to see a good size dog park in the downtown area – as more and more people move into the area many of them have pets and there is no green space to take them in the city. For those who think it will be a dumping ground for dog waste – I’m sure dogs will do some business there but at the same time it’s mostly a chance for dogs to mingle with one another and owners to get to know one another and visit.
The part that gets me – two years to construct it? Seems like a long time no?
not pershing square
Drive to suburbs so your dogs can poop. Leave downtown and Pershing Square free of dogs.
We need a dog park downtown. #4 sounds like a viable option. A high percentage of the people moving to downtown are dog owners. There needs to be a public area made available for them to get exercise, etc. It would be such a positive addition to the area … and another incentive for pet owners to move down here.
and please..pick up your dogs turds. seriously i understand u cant pick up the urine.
But come on… you want a pet, well that comes with responsibilities.
I had a guy in my neighborhood who had his dog out for a walk and we have some pretty nice lawns- public and private and he didnt pick up his turds.
I called him on it. next time i will take a picture and see if he likes that better.
This goes for downtown LA not just the suburbs- any public space.
- Poop-arazzi
The K9 turf is the way to go for this dog park. It will look like real grass, stay green, has a drainage system and is anti-bacterial which will neutralize odors…it looks like they really put some thought into this, and I vote for Plan 4.
A dog owner who won’t pick up after their dog at a dog park won’t pick up after their dog on the street or sidewalk either. The presence of a dog park won’t increase the number of irresponsible dog owners.
ANYTHING would be better than the horrible concrete wasteland that is Pershing Square present day.
plan #4. I agree that plan #3 is way too small. but another 1.5-2 years????
a better option is to let dogs run off-leash at Angels Knoll Park on olive and 4th! its the perfect size, already fenced in, and ready to roll!! the security guards used to be cool with letting them run around off-leash, but apparently the CRA cracked down so no more free runs for fido
cos seriously, they aint building Cal Plaza tower 3 anytime soon!!!
I would go for plan 4. We have our dog trained on one of those indoor astroturf things we got from Pussy N Pooch but I think adding the park would be a great way to get all of us socializing with eachother. If anyone is interested in getting together to walk our dogs downtown do a search for “Portis McCloskey” on Facebook. Portis is my bulldog and he needs some friends!
I don’t understand how anyone can claim that the Square, as it exists now, is anything but an oasis for homelessness, harassment, and panhandling. I walk my dogs through Pershing Square every single day, multiple times a day (but never stopping), and with the exception of trolling tourist groups, there are never any “downtowners” just enjoying the “public place”. It is an otherwise unused, wasted space where any working professional– or just anyone who works for a living– is hesitant to spend too much idle time.
When my wife and I first moved downtown, we took a picnic to the Square, hoping to enjoy the afternoon. No less than SEVEN homeless people approached us, asking for money and/or part of our food. Now, I’m not cold-hearted, but I have never been back to spend any real time in the Square, since.
If you hadn’t put it together, downtown is sought out specifically by Los Angeles dog owners, because of the almost no restrictions from a majority of the housing buildings. These are the same people that have sparked the “downtown resurgence”; shops, restaurants, bars… all suddenly popping up in the last three years BECAUSE of the Angeleno pioneers that have brought their money and loyalty to the businesses of downtown. And it is a no-challenge fact that a high percentage are dog-owners. There are 14 units on my floor. Every. Single. Unit. Has a dog. And that’s just our floor of a twelve story building.
It’s time to pay us back. Give us a place where we can take an important part of our family to meet and socialize, creating and even greater and stronger sense of a downtown community.
And by the way, there are no other more vehement advocates for the responsibility of picking up your own pet’s waste, than OTHER pet owners. I’ve seen fellow pet owners flat-out scream at people who try to get away with not picking up after their dog. A dog park can have a zero-tolerance rule against anyone who uses the park and does not clean up after their pets.
With a dire lack of public space I’m not sure a dog park is the right solution at all. I am sure dog owners are excited by the prospect, and in fact downtown does need a place for pets, however pershing square should not be overtaken by dogs.
If the pershing square advisory board want’s advice i would tell them to simply walk a few blocks away to the central library. While far from perfect it has everything pershing square is missing. Why are we expanding a purple concrete rat infested place with a place for dogs to shit? Does this make sense? No we need green space, grass and trees and a place for HUMAN BEINGS to hang out and socialize.
Pershing Square’s size as a park is the biggest we have in central downtown, and there is no way we are going to get a chunk this sizable again most likely, in a revitalized downtown it should be the “front lawn”. Look at those old pictures, it’s not impossible!
And for people who say anything is better, they are right, but if your willing to settle for just anything then you will never get anything great. So Pershing Square Advisory Board please think about making a space where I can call a friend to meet me and say meet me at cafe pershing, and i walk up to find them sitting on NON concrete bench, perhaps under the shade of a tree, looking like they could stay in the park for hours. Make it a place for people.
“Make it a place for people.”
I’m not understanding why it can’t be both.
According to blogdowntown: “roughly 112,000 square feet (of Pershing Square) is public space. The dog run would take about 5,550 square feet of that. That’s 2.9 percent of the whole park, or 5 percent of the usable public space.”
Why all the squabble over a measly 5% of space that will serve 20% of the DTLA population?
Anything that is done to Pershing Square will be an improvement. Its strait ugly.
I’m on board with #25, Angels Knoll park on 4th and Hill would be the ideal spot for dogs. Aside from the homeless people and illegal aliens that sleep/make out with each other, the only other downtown residents that use it are dog owners.
But if that can’t happen, then Plan 4 seems like the best bet.
Yes, Yes, Yes! With all the dog owners now living downtown, it only makes sense. It could be a place for people AND dogs. We’re not going to just drop the dogs off, we’ll have opportunity to socialize as well. I like the idea of the coffee shop too, just NOT starb’s! We live in South Park across the street from Grand Hope Park/FIDM which is an awesome lawn space but NO DOGS! It is so frustrating! I’d love to have somewhere I could actually walk her to instead of having to get in the car to go play. Downtown deserves a nice space for our doggies, they deserve it!
c.1900 Pershing square known as 6th Street Park was beautiful, tropical. The latest incarnation is sort of tacky. I would support a multi-use park so everyone can enjoy it.
Christian
I’d go with plan 3. Based on walking the site, that area seems already well set up for the strip of land closest to Hill within the Palm Court to be converted to the dog park. Pershing Square needs different types of people to be a healthy public space, like the Maguire Gardens next to the Central Library already is. A dog park will bring another type of user into the Square on a regular basis, and that in turn will make others feel more comfortable with the idea of visiting. It’s a good first step, but at least the dog park portion of plan #3 should be completed in 6 months to start activating the park right away. The rest of plan 3 could be completed within 18-24 months.
And I quote: “We live in South Park across the street from Grand Hope Park/FIDM which is an awesome lawn space but NO DOGS!”
Yes, Shannon, and the park is awesome BECAUSE THERE ARE NO DOGS ALLOWED!
did anyone else hear a bell go off besides the dogs who are wondering why the fuck their owners moved them into the middle of a concrete slab and their owners are too lazy to take them to the ENORMOUS Elysian Park not far away???
I heard it, too!!!
#35 you are just plain rude and generalizing.
shannon (and all other downtown pet owners) are looking to make downtown a more easily live-able area to all people. asking that a small percentage of pershing square be made available as a dog park is not some ridiculous request. we dog owners are not lazy … i happily drive my dogs to laurel canyon dog park when i can for romps. but it’s not always possible. having something accessible right here would not only make life downtown more enjoyable for local pet owners, but it would also make the park a more friendly area to locals … because right now it is so populated with homeless and vagrants that it’s hardly the first place one goes “for an afternoon out.”
and for the record, most all the dog owners i know down here pick up after their dogs. sure there are some rude and inconsiderate owners who don’t, but they are hardly any different than the a-holes who throw their trash on the sidewalk or lawns in the park.
a dog park will only strengthen the sense of community already brewing down here. get over your own distaste for pet owners and realize that we aren’t going anywhere.
As a dog owner, I prefer Plan 4 in tandem with Plan 2.
Though one and a half to two years for Plan 4 is ridiculous! Why would that take so long??
I am SO with you, #18. Union Square in NY is what I have been saying for years. LA desperately needs a decent size green space in the heart of downtown, one that will cater to people and their pets.
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/unionsquarepark
Um, as for crap on the ground…I see far more homeless crapping on the ground and not picking up after themselves than I see dog owners not picking up after their pet. I am all for restoring the Park back to what it once was. But I ABSOLUTELY believe that downtown will benefit far more with Pershing Square being converted into a people and dog park. Seriously. There is no place for dogs to socialize. And we can all see how Pershing Square only being a “human” park thrived. The park is ugly and over run with homeless. I have never seen a family or anyone that did not look like a crack head hanging out their. I am all for #4!
6th/Spring: “It’s time to pay us back. Give us a place where we can take an important part of our family to meet and socialize, creating and even greater and stronger sense of a downtown community.”
Scratching my head at this one.
@LA Lola: The reason people are upset, at least personally is not that 5% of the park would be doggable, just that there is money going into Pershing Ssquare and it’s all going to be for dog owners. If as part of a complete renovation part of the park was set up like this it would be fine. But instead funding keeps 95% of the park crappy for people and 5% new but for dogs.
Also does anyone know if that park near china town and the river is dog friendly?
To a lot of Angelenos, Pershing Square isn’t a PARK – it’s a PARKING GARAGE. I’m no structural engineer but maybe the landscape possibilities up top are limited by what’s below. Could the garage support all the soil and trees to make it look like it did back in 1900? I’d like to hear what, and if, there are limitations on how much green the garage can support.
Having said that, it can sure as hell support a dog park (just a small part of the block would be used) and like others have said above, dog owners do a pretty decent job policing their pets. Non-pet owners need to check out some of the dog parts around town. They work.
Downtown is a very unique neighborhood. It is one of the most pet-friendly places to live. Almost all of the loft buildings are pet-friendly, and for BIG dogs. This is important to note as most other urban areas in other cities are the opposite and usually have a lot of small dogs. Big dogs are mostly found in suburbs. For big dog owners, Downtown LA provides an opportunity to live in an urban environment. However, space (and grass) is needed to make their lives more enjoyable.
Humans have so many things to do to occupy their time for enjoyment. Downtown is overflowing with restaurants (and many with outdoor patios), bars, entertainment, etc. There’s no shortage for humans. We need more amenities. Pershing is so big and so under utilized. With plan # 3 or 4, it will gain more of a purpose and develop into an amazing amenity attracting others to downtown.
Other cities have dog parks and manage the smell just fine. It’s not that difficult to maintain when budget is allocated to doing so. Human pee smells just as bad and our streets are full of that. At least this area will have a regular schedule for maintenance. How often do you see street cleaning find the human pee everywhere?
fuck the dog park – so sick of trying to go enjoy a plesant day outside at the park and smelling dog shit
To number 44. It it’s your attitude that stinks.
As much as I love looking at all the dogs in Downtown, I feel bad for the big ones, and sometimes the little ones too. Its unfair and quite selfish of people to lock up those poor things in a tiny little loft with no grass to run on or fresh air. That being said, a dog park would be nice for those cooped up in the house all day. You might see me sitting there watching your dogs run around though. I myself still wont get a dog as much as I love them and want one, but I just dont think its fair if I cant give them the grass and freedom to run around whenever they want.
^ I found my dog as a puppy in the streets of Sylmar. He fit in the palm of my hand and probably would’ve died or been gassed otherwise.
Dogs should be just fine in a mid-sized loft with daily walks and socializing with neighborhood canines.
I totally understand what jadoreserge is saying, but think about the thousands of dogs and cats killed every year because they are not rescued. I think if you can provide a loving home for a pet companion is far better. Regardless if there is a dog park or not. There are so many animals in need of a home. Dogs and cats are surprisingly adaptable. More so than humans. All they need is a place to sleep, poop and play. Is is too much to ask for a dog park in downtown? Most owners pic up after their pet. It is not uncalled for to bitch out an owner that doesn’t. I would. I think pershing square could be an incredible place for both humans and their pets. New York did it, why can’t we? I never heard much fuss about pershing square before it was proposed to put a dog park in it. So what’s the big fuss now? Let’s make it a beautiful spot for all.
To #44 – you are not smelling dog crap, you are smelling human crap. The street people do a great job of cleaning (for those who don’t pick up). I walk my dog daily and rarely see dog crap on the sidewalks. For the amount of dogs that exist down here, that is VERY good. There’s a big differnce in odor b/w human and dog crap. You are enjoying your own brand smell.
I don’t have a dog but I think it would be great to incorporate a space, a fun space for dogs to get exercise and run around. The only think I ask for is a set of swings! Hope Park has no swings. I have two little girls that love dogs, I’m sure they would have fun watching them play while they fly through the air in their swing.
ANy space in downtown for a tennis court??
I absolutely am for plan 4 or something like the old days plus a dog park somewhere in there. Since downtown is turning into a New York vibe, why not try and make Perishing square like a very mini Central Park? We could definitely use that around. And we need to get the bums out of there. Maybe somekind of control on that. They make that place smell nasty and that’s why no one wants to go through there.
As a dog owner, I would vote for Plan 4. However, there’s no mention whether small dogs will be separated from big dogs. In addition, Pershing Square right now is full of homeless people and I would not feel comfortable taking my dog there if the situation is not rectified. Pershing Square also smells horrible (as mentioned in #49).
Plan 4 is the better idea; it distributes some greenspace/public space farther down toward south park and provides a draw both for uptown and south park. I really think, in terms of planning downtown, that we need more effort to integrate the various parts of downtown instead of keeping the focus on the part of downtown that is already developed, like around Pershing Square.
I don’t think there is a lot of space in Pershing square for everything that goes on, and the antipathy towards pet owners by the comments here suggests that the splitting an already small space won’t work, largely because I think we need to maintain room in Pershing Square for downtown gathering events.
I don’t think downtown dog owners should be directed to Elysian Park. For people in south park, Elysian Park is way too far to walk, and there are also large portions of that pedestrian trip where the sidewalks are poor and you’d have to cross pretty big streets. So the idea that dog owners shouldn’t be lazy really means that we’d expect them to drive their dogs to the park, and the point of building up downtown as a residential area isn’t really to add more car trips to the LA Basin because we’ve done a poor job of distributing collective space.
I also live near Grand Hope Park and it’s a far cry from being ‘an awesome park because there are no dogs.’ It’s a nice greenspace, but it’s no more than that. It provides a spot for the FIDM students to gather, and it provides employment for the security guards who spend their lives telling people there are no dogs allowed, but it doesn’t function as public space in any significant way. There’s no reason to go in there unless you want to hang around 19 year-olds in trendy clothing while inhaling the particulates from 9th street. There’s nothing for little kids to there. It’s too much trouble to bother going there to sit with a coffee or tea from any of the places nearby, so more people sit at the Ralph’s than bother going to to park to sit. Grand Hope is a primarily privately used space for students and a place that people use to film. Whatevs. Urban oases can be nice on their own terms: the passive greenspace around the public library, for example, is great. Compared to that, Grand Hope looks pretty…meh…unexciting, dogs or no dogs. It could benefit from being more integrated into the surrounding area rather than what it is.
There are a whole bunch of things that need to happen downtown, re: human waste disposal and sidewalk safety. There’s litter everywhere, pretty much constantly, all over Broadway, and there are dead blocks, such as on 8th between Olive and Hill, where on the south side of the street the human waste accumulates. The litter is not just unsightly, it’s an expensive solid waste problem for the city. The human feces obviously has its own set of health consequences. We can’t expect people to walk on our sidewalks, especially with their kids, with these conditions. My block after dark is a homeless settlement with the attendant consequences for their health and safety and mine; I’m not urban weenie (from Chicago), but you can’t walk after dark without a constant barrage of bullying and panhandling if you live in the south part of downtown.
And as much as I hate to say this, I think we need to start getting after adult bicyclists to ride on the street, not the sidewalk. These bicyclists really affect pedestrian flow. I”m watching too many near-misses between children on the sidewalk and adult male bicyclists (primarily) who are traveling at very unsafe speeds while mixing with pedestrians. The traffic in downtown Los Angeles is not particularly heavy (people should try riding in NYC or DC if they want congestion), and pedestrian/bicyclist accidents can be very serious, especially if the pedestrian is a small child.
Regarding #53′s comment about Grand Hope Park, “There’s nothing for little kids to there”, as the father of three young children (aged 5, 2, 2), that’s categorically incorrect. There is good playground equipment (getting a little old though). The various water fountains are good for exploration. The clock-tower used to have enormous charm when it worked. My kids still like it and it creates a good destination icon. There’s plenty of green space for ball play. Lots of trees for shade to keep one cool. There’s a public water fountain. Lots of nifty sculpture to fire their imaginations. I’ve used the space for Easter egg hunts and birthday parties. So as a public space for families, it is excellent. Regretably, the park isn’t open to dogs. But, that shouldn’t tarnish its reputation.
As for people riding their bikes on the sidewalks, she makes a valid point. I had a guy drive into my stroller with his bike and he cursed me out for getting in his way!
no “dog park”…. but definitely improve that 80′s monstrosity..
union square in S.F. works because of all that is surrounding the area, and the abundance of great parks in the bay area… BUT, i think pershing should be a mix of a square like union but also a park.. we wouldn’t want to miss the possibility of having some great events on the weekends ( such as they do in union square ), our ice skating, movies, etc… but also a “central” park for both humans and leashed dogs to enjoy during the days and evenings…
many of the loft buildings have dog runs, so to have another dog area in a rather small city square is not the best use of land… it needs to be a multi-use space for all to enjoy… every square foot of it.
there is a great LARGE park to walk your dog… just past chinatown… short little drive and well worth it: Los Angeles State Historic Park
I like plan 4. I don’t understand people’s concerns about it not being a human space – who hangs out at Pershing Square now? They put on lots of events and if 50 to 200 people that show up, it hardly takes up a fraction of the park (I’ve never seen more than 50 people watching a show there). I don’t understand the sudden concern when so few people take advantage of what’s offered already. Even with the ice-rink, there is plenty of room for any of the dog park proposals. On the off chance people do attend Pershing Square en mass, the dog park won’t effect their general park experience.
What it will do is actually bring the humans with their dogs, thus making it more attractive for non-dog-owning humans, and as I mentioned above, leaving the majority of the “park” for non-dog activities, such as homeless people hanging out on the huge expanses of concrete.
The question here is not in regard to whether you think it’s cruel and sad to “own a dog” downtown. The question is your feelings on the four proposals for use of space at Pershing Square. #46, I rescued a large dog and he lives a very good life downtown.
#55, many of the buildings DO NOT have dog runs. And it’s not appropriate for dog owners to go walking into buildings they don’t pay rent to live in to make use of their dog runs. We do need that space in the park.
To #40:
The renovation of downtown and surge of new businesses/bars/restaurants/etc. are all indicative of more and more people moving down here. People with money. People who spend that money in/on the local businesses. Who go to the bars. Eat at the restaurants. Shop at the boutiques or bring new patronage to existing stores. And a very high-percentage of these new people are dog-owners.
So, again, we’re a large interest group that downtown has benefitted and will continue to benefit from. Pay. Us. Back. Give us the 5% of the Square. We absolutely deserve it.
And again, I walk my dogs through the Square multiple times a day, every day, and I see NONE of the people complaining you want more public space, hanging out in there. And CERTAINLY not in the area that’s being proposed. It’s all homeless people or maybe 1-2 professionals on break and I think they can certainly tolerate us dog-people in the far corner of that otherwise huge area.
Bad idea………..HORRIBLE IDEA
Period.
i work on 5th and spring in the Spring Arts Tower, on my drive home i counted 9 dogs walking down spring. I bet there are more dogs on spring and 5ththan there are people in Pershing Square.
It would be nice if those dogs had a space to run off leash
Plan #4 is the way to go!!!
I work at 5th and Spring and bring my dogs into the office. We would love to go to a dog park at Pershing Square. The bigger the better (plan 4), and push for a quicker timeline!!
Plan # 4 looks great!!!!!!!!!!!! I think it would be a wonderful way to utilize that space…..
dear #61 – i am so jealous of you. I wish I could take my doggie to work.
Anyhow — I like any idea that would bring a dog park downtown…!!!
to the pershing square advisory board:
1) a dog park anywhere in downtown where there is a dog run, some grass, some dirt, access to water and secured fencing to separate small dogs from big dogs would be great
2) it would be best if the dog park was in an area where the dog owners could walk from their dt loft apmts to visit frequently (so – somewhere centrally located)
3) as people previously mentioned, if pershing square is to be the location (and if either plan that includes the dog park is passed) please get the project going and complete it as soon as possible.
TO All of the previous posters who don’t want a dog park just because they think the dt dog owners aren’t picking up after their dogs & etc…
you all have pretty twisted opinions. It’s true that downtown la needs green space for “humans”… but at least you “humans” can hop onto the DASH or other mode of transit to get yourselves to some green space such as Elysian Park or other parks nearby.
If we humans who live with dogs downtown want to take our dogs to Elysian Park, we would need access to a car or a mode of transportation that would allow us to bring our pet too. Last time I checked, the DASH and Bus Lines in LA do not allow you to bring your pet on board.
So – having a dog park in walkable distance for all dt dog owners would be a great utilization of space, in my opinion.
Why don’t dog owners take their dogs to a proper big green park like the Cornfield or Elysian?
Pershing Square isn’t a park. It’s a plaza.
Europeans and Latin Americans have long since used the Plaza as a social, human gathering. It’s worked for them, without “doggy woggy pway areas” for centuries.
Dogs are great but make the square a decent public plaza not a litter box.
To #64 (and others suggesting the Cornfield and Elysian Park) – Regardless of whether or not dog owners have a car to take their pets to the parks you are suggesting, the idea of a dog park in the neighborhood is for people to walk and talk while their pets socialize. We currently take our pet to Pasadena to run and play but it’s hardly convenient as a downtown resident.
I moved to Chicago last April and have come to like LA … One of the differences as a pet owner is how un-dog friendly LA is. We’re talking about one park here. In Chicago each neighborhood had a dog park of some kind, operated by the city. Not only was is great for the pets but it brought neighbors together.
I’ll say it again too – for those worried about the smell of dog urine and feces … I wish you had the same concern for the men and woman routinely going to the bathroom throughout the city.
exactly!
why encourage more smell?
I agree, if people put as much effort at trying to stop a dog park into trying to help the homeless people living on the streets, it would be a far better place. Honestly….to most of you you who have commented on this…What have you done to make downtown LA a better place for all…not just you. Downtown absolutely needs a dog park. There is not one place for dog owners to take their pets. There are quite a few places for humans to socialize. I have said it before and I will say it again. Most of you didn’t give a rats ass about Pershing Square until it was proposed to have a small section of a dog run put in. Now all of a sudden you all are up in arms about it. Come on people! This is simple, provide a space for dogs too. It is all a part of turning what used to be skid row into a place where people want to live. Yay for progress!
Just my thoughts.
Think about it.
Homeless and bums do not like dogs – having a section of the park off to the side will bring people with built in security.
New York has plenty of combination Human and dog parks, which work great, and do not smell. I often saw many people who did not have dogs, just watch the critters run around. I never noticed a smell at any of those parks.
Downtown is partially on the up and coming because of dogs. Why? because many people moved here because many of the buildings permit dogs.
In the interest of full disclosure I am big dog owner and I am the president of the Pershing Square Advisory Board.
It’s important to note the Advisory part of that title. The volunteers who serve on this board diligently try to represent the residents of downtown. We really appreciate the time each person has taken to make their views known. While we work to get those views know to the powers at the Department of Recreation and Parks we do only advise’. Recently there has been an increased desire on the part of the department to actually listen to the residents about how the park could be improved so the continued input from all downtown residents could really make a difference in the future.
The dog park issue is just the first of many issues we hope to address in the coming months. As noted by several people, we know there is a need for a “food operation” of some sort to enliven the park. In fact there is a vacant building on the Olive Street side of the park that was constructed for this use. Numerous attempts in the past to find an operator for this space were met with bureaucratic red tape and a general lack of operator interest. The park board is now focusing on this problem and recognizes that a fun place to get food and hang out in our great climate could in itself change the nature of the park.
There are several reasons we started with the dog park. In no particular order of importance: 1) the Palm Court area is currently a disaster. It is generally physically unattractive and a center of undesirable activity especially at night. Funds have been allocated to improve this area so we are trying to determine the best way to use those funds for improvements actually desired by the community. 2) dogs are allowed in the park already. Currently there is no clear direction for dog owners regarding how they are “supposed” to use the park. Currently the central grass assembly area is often times most obvious area for a dog rest facility. This area is not designed for this use. This makes subsequent use as a people gathering place a problem. We are all aware how badly the real grass suffers from having dogs use this area to relieve themselves. It is our hope that by taking a small area of the park for specific dog usage we can train (guilt) dog owners into visiting the dog area first before experiencing the rest of the park. 3) related to that is the fact that to have a pleasant dog area we will have a sophisticated system of synthetic grass over a permanent drainage system to minimize smell and sanitation issues 4) we are trying to make the park a magnet for everybody who lives downtown. Currently one of our most regular population bases for park usage are area dog owners. These people walk through the park multiple times a day and the more people who are in the park the better and safer it is.
Several comments that might be important to this discussion. It is not the idea that this area would be an off leash facility. It is simply too small. It will be fenced and have dog drinking facilities and “bag stations” to encourage clean up. Also, it seems that many people favor option #4 because it is larger. If option #3 was the same size would that change the discussion?
This is not an either or situation. This is not about giving the park over to dogs at the expense of people. This is about encouraging use of one of downtown’s only open spaces by as many residents as possible. And to keep those uses as compatible as possible so everyone can enjoy the experience.
it’s a square over a parking structure
it doesn’t need grass or a dog run, just a complete redesign with a cafe, a real fountain, a good magazine stand and wireless. it’s not rocket science. nor is it a petting zoo.
i dont comprehend how americans speak of public design with dogs in mind over people. it is as if you all want to be amateur zoologists.
If you want to live in the country with grass and trees then why pick the middle of a city?
#71 you make no sense. Who said anything about dog owners wanting to live in the country? Dog owners live everywhere and cutting out 5 percent of the square to create a social atmosphere for owners and their pets seems totally reasonable to me.
Department staff explained to the PAB that the up to 2 year time frame for either dog park proposal was due more to the necessity to actually change the City Ordinance to allow the Department to create a dog park at Pershing Square, than it is for the actual construction of a dog park. The Ordinance specifically states the exact locations of dog parks. Changing the Ordinance is beyond the control of the Department and the time frame was only an estimate. Actual construction would be a much shorter time frame.
YES for the dogpark!! It’ll become neighborhood committee central. Every other city except for LA knows this…….
To #71. I think it is totally reasonable to have a dog run in a small section of the park. Maybe all you need is wireless and a cafe, but this is not just your park! This is a public space for all to enjoy. That includes the many dogowners in downtown, who frequent the park far more than you do I am sure. A public space with grass would be a wonderful addition to the asphalt jungle we all live in.
And just to clarify…Pershing Square is not just a square over a parking structure as #71 puts it. It was originally a park, which was beautiful. then the city decided to demolish it to put an underground parking structure in place. Unfortunately the redesign after the parking was put it truly sucks. It was meant to be a park originally and should be a park for all to enjoy. Grass and trees would bring it back or at least bring it close to what it used to be.
Plan #4 would be the best! All the people who are saying we need a place for people – it’s not like “people” would be excluded from the dog park. sheesh.
a dog park would be great for dog owners. ( i am not one of them) the park should just charge dog owners, that way theyd take better care of it, and not leave all their shit all over. and the rest of the park, the homeless can have it back. they are the only ones there anyways
I don’t believe that people even think before they post a message on here. What does paying to use a dog park have to do with having shit everywhere? I don’t know about you but I live downtown and I have never seen dog shit laying around. Dog owners are more responsible than you think. If you would like to leave the park to the homeless why would even voice your opinion on what to do with the park?
Then the dog owners financially support the money that will be needed for the constant maintenance of the place to keep it clean, etc.
It’s also a smart way to increase funding for cultural events in Pershing Square.
I also agree that it would make dog owners a bit more responsible for keeping it clean. And yeah, I’ve stepped in dog shit more than once downtown.
Dog owners may claim diligence to cleaning on a blog, but the reality is far from it.
^ You sure that was dog shit?
Just sayin’.
for sure.
the smell of dog shit is distinct.
Wow, what incredible sense of smell you have #82. LOL Come on people. If it were a human only park there would still be shit there. If not from dogs…from humans. I work downtown and see homeless shitting on the sidewalk pretty much every day. Every park is alotted a maintenace fund and it would be no different. I think it is funny how all of a sudden people are concerned about Pershing Square when they haven’t cared much for it in the past. Think about it…if it does have a section allocated for dogs, then it will for sure bring in people that are not homeless (which is all that is there now). What is the big fuss? Sure some dogowners aren’t responsible, but some non-dogowners are just as irresponsible. Throwing trash onto the ground. Leaving cigarette butts everywhere. Please! This is just stupid. Make it a park for all (including Dogs) to enjoy.
I am a DT dog owner and and a reponsible one at that and I have no problems with the concept of paying a fee for the use of a dog park.
But that being said, I would expect a LOT from the park, such as the park being clean at all time with someone there to pick up after the dogs. Otherwise, what am I paying a fee for?
I agree with PE Lofter, 99% of the people who are anti-dog park are people who NEVER use Pershing Square anyway.
“99% of the people who are anti-dog park are people who NEVER use Pershing Square anyway.”
an easy and unquantifiable thing to post
You would be paying to use the dog run, NOT to have a dog shit attendant so you dont have to clean up after your dog ever again.
I look forward to a public plaza with a good cafe and newsstand.
Look at the Silver Lake dog run as a perfect example. It smells worse than Pershing Square does now at all times. The smell from a dog run isn’t conducive to the majority of people who don’t own dogs.
Keep in mind that although there are some dogs in lofts, a redesign of Pershing Square shouldn’t only cater to those handful of loft petowners. It should take into consideration the cross section of people who move through downtown, including those who travel on the subway and buses, both which forbid the passage of dogs.
Kevin,
They are not talking about turning the entire plaza into a dog park. The area in question is 5 percent of the total square footage of Pershing Square. I think it is totally fair to allocate 5 percent of this area to something useful like a dog park. I think you would agree that at least 5 percent of downtown residents do have dogs.
I agree with you that a newstand and cafe need to be included but there is a ton of space there to use.
HI, I am a Piece of Shit and I resent all you people calling me dirty, smelly and something you don’t like to look at or step in.
Let’s face it, right now, as you sit there reading this, you’re full of it.
So back off and let me dry up and fertilize the grass.
POS
That’s a new one.
use your head- um… park.. giving back to homeless… sarcasm. use your head…majority of pay bathrooms are cleaner than the free ones… use your head
You know, I’m a recent dog adopter and I take him through the park at least once a day. After living in L.A. for nearly two decades, it’s clear that dog parks do one thing: bring people together in a positive, social and joyful way. As much as it pains me to say this, a Pershing Square with more landscaping (has anyone noticed that we’re not even allowed to walk on the grass that is planted there, btw?) will mean more homeless people will live there and fewer residents will use this public space.
I meet so many wonderful people when I walk my little guy through Pershing Square now–people from literally all walks of life. A dark park will mean that people will be socializing there more frequently, which means that the prostitution and the drug dealing will have to decrease. It will mean that our burgeoning population will have yet another *free* place to socialize, meet each other, share our ideas and our concerns about downtown. It will give kids (“has anyone thought of the children”) who live down here something to do with their families.
Please…please…we don’t ask for much. Just a fence and a flat piece of ground to let our little pals run around in.
Plan #4 is definitely the best way to go if a dog park option is chosen; however, there doesn’t seem to be separated spaces for large and small dogs. I realize it’s already small as it is, but there’s potential for drama if you mix the two sizes (you dog owners know what I mean)
Obviously, there are many who don’t agree on this. being a dog ownner, I want a place to take my pooch, but I do understand how irresposible some owners are. I live in a pet friendly building, and I am shocked at how irresponsible some owners can be. I am definitaly one who will yell at a dogowner for not picking up after the dog. I wish all would do the same. Please people, when you see dogowners leaving their crap behinf, say something. We would not be dealing with this issue if all dogowners would clean up after their dogs. No one wants to visit a park that stinks and is unsanitary. When the homeless do it, what can you do? But you can do something to prove to everyone that we as dogowners are responsible and can share a space with all without it smelling like a sewer. I believe this can work. But only if everyone steps up and takes responsibility.
I love dogs. My roommate has a dog. I walk him sometimes. He’s a real cute fella. Everyone’s got dogs. It’s one big happy dog family here in downtown…
But for christssake, have we all lost our minds? We need HUMAN parks. HU-MAN…you know, top of the food chain? Apex predators and whatnot? To my knowledge (and please correct me if I’m wrong), the only outdoor basketball court downtown is on Skid Row. Wtf?
And what about the folks with kids down here…what about a playground for them? Or are we so selfish we’d rather have healthy dogs than healthy children? (what? someone had to say it…)
The reality is, any way you can get people in the community to use the park more often, I vote for that. It’s a way to mitigate the homelessness problem, and bring the community together.
But I also think before we try to do any sort of crazy ass dog run, we should at least THINK about putting in “human park infrastructure”.
There’s a park next to Angels Fllight…it’s on a hill. Why not lobby to get that turned into a dog park? Let’s at least use the flat space as dynamically and efficiently as possible, and make it for us humans.
Until then (and someone else above mentioned it) there is a GIANT park to run your dogs just north of Chinatown. It’s a 5 min drive. Try using it.
The point is to have a park here in downtown not just for humans, not just for dogs. It should be shared. I agree we need a park,but what is so bad about wanting a small section that is dog friendly? Come on. No one wants to have to drive 5 minutes to a park. I think the unselfish thing to do is to make a park for all. That includes children and dogs. Sheesh! And let’s face it, if every dog owner moved out of downtown, there would be a huge amount of empty lofts. I don’t think I can say the same if every person with a child moved.
People downtown use dogs to replace failed human relationships.
This makes them emotionally vulnerable. By providing a “park” for their “children” we play along with their self deception.
Collis – that is about as stupid a response as you could come up with. Did you get dropped on your head much as a baby?
Haha… harsh. Seriously though, I have no problem with a park that provides a coexisting relationship between dogs and humans. However, I think we should reexamine our priorities when these plans provide an active “dog-run” with nothing more for the humans than a couple of “passive” benches on what will probably be astro-turf.
10, 20 , 30 years from now, if they fail to remake pershing square into a useable park…other than for dogs. It’ll be just like every other shortsighted development that angelenos have to deal with. (somebody go to santa monica and take notes on what they’ve done)
Get some vision.
If you read the article they are proposing only that 5 percent of the entire park be used as a dog park. That would leave a lot more than a couple of benches for humans. If you go to Pershing Square today, right now you would see they have a good portion of the grassy area roped off so NO ONE can use it. Why not cut a little fence in there and let the damn dogs poop. No humans will be affected!
My kids may be dogs but they still need a safe place to play.